Surveilance Debate

[Dissent]

i notice no thread has been brought up on this topic. what do you guys think about the surveilance watch w/o warrants? do you think its right for bush to authorize the surveilance w/o warrants or can you agree with me that its illegal and something should be done to stop this.

Bush defends spying at home, calls it terror surveillance

Times of India | January 25 2006

Comment: Spying on citizens because we are all possible terrorists.

MANHATTAN: President Bush is pushing back at critics of his once-secret domestic spying effort, saying it should be called a "terrorist surveillance program" and contending it has the backing of legal experts, lawmakers and the US Supreme Court.

Several members of Congress from both major parties have questioned the legality of having the National Security Agency snoop without first obtaining court warrants.

That is because the program bypasses a special federal court that, by law, must authorise eavesdropping on Americans; and because the president provided only limited notification to a few lawmakers.

"It's amazing that people say to me, 'Well, he's just breaking the law.' If I wanted to break the law, why was I briefing Congress?" Bush said on Monday before a large and friendly audience on a college campus in the heartland state of Kansas.

"It's amazing that people say to me, 'Well, he's just breaking the law.' If I wanted to break the law, why was I briefing Congress?"

the point is YOU BROKE THE LAW, ASSHOLE!
i think im gonna stalk my neighbor because shes hot. but ill let her know im stalking her and its ok. if my president does it than i can do it. no.. j/k but the point is he did something illegal and no one is doing shit about it.

[Guest]

a group member i know posted a question in quite a few groups the last couple of days.

In what kind of hypothetical situation would our government need to bypass FISA? This is a request for opinion, so no need for facts. I just want opinions.

Lots of debate and nothing at all. Not one neocon Bush supporter could come up with a thing. The closest thing to one was if the FISA judge was a terrorist, you probably wouldn't want to go to him or her to get a warrant. If you knew the judge was a terrorist, wouldn't you arrest the judge lol?!

Try it in some of your debates. Shuts em right down.

All I could come up with was an antihypothetical...if agents are working deep cover and don't get a warrant and if they are captured or killed, had they filed plans and for warrants, then at least that intel wouldn't be loist.

It's illegal what they did. Period.

No one knows what they collected on whom or when either. Bush spent time at the NSA today, no doubt shreding records and formatting disks.

Gonzalez is pissing me off the worst in this, standing behind Bush and Cheney like this. He's worse than they are because he is betraying the very country he is sworn to uphold the laws of and is supposed to be fair.

Is there anyone these people don't have their claws into?

Able Danger, anyone?

[Iconoclast]

Wasn't like it was a big surprise or anything. False controversey to give the pundits something to play with.

[Demockery101]

agreed icon they've been at this shit for years FISA=Freely illegal surveillence actions

[Dissent]

i saw poll on some newschannel and it said that 60% of americans feel that the ILLEGAL surveilance is to stop terrorism. wow! Bush brainwashed the people again.

[mediasyko]

This is an increasing problem in all aspects of life, not just Bush's phone tappings. Local police and FBI perform unwarrented tappings and survalience daily on many random citizens. People don't get it. You let the president be above the law, you allow EVERYONE to be above the law! You make one corrupt man in charge of ethics and no one can beat him at his own game.

I just downloaded the google earth. Looked at everything sitting in my yard. If they wanted too they could search for terrorist in the comforts of home just watching the satelite on the screen. I know I sure could spot someone I was after and plan out a position of attack since I can see every back alley one takes to and from work.

I can watch every interstate within a 25 mile radius in the morning to avoid traffic. What may seem as a modern convinience is used by others as a device of control to catch criminals and other citizens when there aren't enough officers.

Every item in you home can be tracked by the anti-theft device. Someone can scan your house to see what brand of deodorant you use or scan a landfill to see number Britany Spears CDS thrown away. All in the name of market research, millions are spent on tracking technology. Everything tagged, even you, your children, your pets - tagged like cattle. You are a product of the corporations.

The military has devices that can hear through thick concrete walls for the tinyest signs of life, they can target you half a world away, and attack within seconds. Heat sensors and night vision replace the need for light.

They can find anything , anywhere, anytime, know what you are doing, when you did it, and who you were doing it with. Yet they play these games, and let certain flaws leak. Testing the waters, seeing how we react so they can know their limits. They sell their claims to the media, brainwashing the people into believing their lies as they 'stay tuned'.

It's much easier to overthrow millions of people when they are lethargic enough that they can barely applaud. This isn't 1920's literature, this is the harsh reality of the rats finding themselves inside the cage at the end of the maze.

[Redelicious]

I just downloaded the google earth. Looked at everything sitting in my yard.

wow seriously?

They are tightening the control grid on us. What is the larger plan?

[flanker12k]

The bastards that be first want control of everyone/everything then they want to start "culling the herd" with designer race specific bioweapons........

BTW I'm not kidding bout the race specific bioweapons its there in an obscure sentence wanting to legitimize the use of them, do a search of it in "Rebuilding America's Defenses" PDF doc.


When I first heard bout it from Alex Jones, I thought he's FULL of IT! and when i found it i was left jaw touching the floor.

the FUXORS that be carried out 9/11 as a response to the opposition they were getting with their plans using America as an engine to dominate the world.........

[flanker12k]

a group member i know posted a question in quite a few groups the last couple of days.

In what kind of hypothetical situation would our government need to bypass FISA? This is a request for opinion, so no need for facts. I just want opinions.

Lots of debate and nothing at all. Not one neocon Bush supporter could come up with a thing. The closest thing to one was if the FISA judge was a terrorist, you probably wouldn't want to go to him or her to get a warrant. If you knew the judge was a terrorist, wouldn't you arrest the judge lol?!

Try it in some of your debates. Shuts em right down.

All I could come up with was an antihypothetical...if agents are working deep cover and don't get a warrant and if they are captured or killed, had they filed plans and for warrants, then at least that intel wouldn't be loist.

It's illegal what they did. Period.

No one knows what they collected on whom or when either. Bush spent time at the NSA today, no doubt shreding records and formatting disks.

Gonzalez is pissing me off the worst in this, standing behind Bush and Cheney like this. He's worse than they are because he is betraying the very country he is sworn to uphold the laws of and is supposed to be fair.

Is there anyone these people don't have their claws into?

Able Danger, anyone?

Able Danger is a red herring while the facts can conclusively prove that 9/11 was an inside job the AYRAB terrorists were Lee Harvey Oswalds.....
Able Danger LEGITIMIZES the WHORE ON TERROR (on Americans) as a plausible threat......the whole thing is to scare sheeple onto the reservation of a police state mentality.

[Ry]

Able Danger is a red herring while the facts can conclusively prove that 9/11 was an inside job the AYRAB terrorists were Lee Harvey Oswalds.....
Able Danger LEGITIMIZES the WHORE ON TERROR (on Americans) as a plausible threat......the whole thing is to scare sheeple onto the reservation of a police state mentality

yep. As always they will use fear and terrorism to take away our rights. As for the ease droppings with out warrants it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL so it doesn't matter if congress had approved it or not because they can not make laws that are unconstitutional.

Read the 4th amendment

'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'

By the way the ruling by the courts to take away private land to be used by another who privately own's it is also unconstitutional.

'No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb, nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.'

The Partiot Act is also unconstitutional since it gets rid of the Due Process of law and allows for secret arrest with out trial and detention indefinately.

Bush has Shat all over the 4th and 5th amendments.