Has everyone seen Zeitgeist?

[jfc]

First of all...Zeitgeist is no more a film about 9-11 than Hamlet is a play about a ghost or than Mona Lisa is a film about a painting. It spends 42 out of 122 minutes on that subject. It is not that single minded nor does it attempt to be. Furthermore, what it has about 9-11 comes right out of Loose Change which, for the most part, we can all agree that is a very flawed movie made by rather naive kids. But that's not the point of Zeitgeist AT ALL. It is merely one aspect in a film that tries to explain the history of and the methods used to create the myths by which we are steered into believing how we should live and what we should believe.

It is a film about the power of myth and it simply sites 9-11 as yet another myth in a long line of similar events.

I agree with you on the fact that 9-11 was in all likelihood carried out by those very same Zionist elements of the US Government and Israel that Ryan's video and book goes into great detail about. That is a very sound thesis and it fills in just about all of the, until now, missing pieces of the 9-11 puzzle. I grant you all that without reservation. However, to launch into that with the average Joe on the streets, and let's not forget; these average Joe's are the people that do the preponderance of the living and dying and working and paying and breeding and feeding and loving in the world. These are the people who work all day, get home, feed the kids and plant their exhausted fat asses on the lazy-boy and have their first unsupervised moment of the day at a point when they are so fucking tired that their hair hurts. And whether you want to admit it or not, without these people organizing en-mass...nothing will get done. To try to bring them into the debate on the issue of 9-11 ( and yes, lets not forget that many of these people still believe it was 19 Arab hijackers) to start with pointing a finger of certainty at Israel and the Douglas Feith, Dov Zakheim et. al cabal is a virtual guarantee of turning them off to further discussion because such theories are simply over most of their heads. It is the equivalent of handing a child Dostoyesfsky before you have even taught them the alphabet and then getting pissed at them for not getting it. That's fucking insane.

Most of these people, the average Joe's (for lack of a better term), are good people. If provided with the facts, I believe they will usually make the right choice. In that regard I guess I'm still an optimist. And I believe that because I've seen it happen. I have many dear childhood friends who, while I love them like family, are simply dumb as a bag of hammers. And even with that intellectual short-coming, as I have taken the time to talk them through this issue of 9-11, dealing with it on it's most elementary level, that the governments story does not hold up to scrutiny whatsoever...they have, the vast majority of them, come around. Had I approached the issue by assaulting them with terms like Zionist, Israel etc etc etc...I would have lost them...I'm sorry but it's true.

There is no perfect 9-11 film, book, article, commentary or anything. There are many layers of truths that lead to one unifying truth. But it's got to be handled one piece at a time. Know your audience.

Most of the films and books that have been made on the subject have a place. Loose Change is easy for a mass audience to get their heads around. Remember, you're not presenting evidence to a review board, you first have to get the people to agree on one unifying idea...That the "Official Story" is total bullshit. Once that happens, then there will be sufficient movement to demand a new investigation...and we know where and to whom those investigations will lead. The truth will out.

Do you want to be Casandra's or do you want to see these fucking criminals go to jail?

It's not a hard choice..and it's up to you.

Remember, most people can't even balance their fucking checkbooks. that doesn't mean their heart isn't in the right place or that they don't love their country.

I hope no one here takes this as a personal assault because it's not. I come here seeking knowledge, to put in simple form, to reach the simple man. I want to communicate.

Peace People.

[Ry]

I now it is not a 911 film but the second half of it is. The first half I liked though it was copied from another film. The third part on banking was Money Masters re-done. And I like money masters. But all they did was scoop up stuff that already out in other major films. And they made the same goofy mistakes on their 911 section as the goofy people they copied it form.

I support the film I posted it here. I was actually the first large site to post it anywhere and I was the guy that got it linked on WRH look it up. That was when it was just a film on religion though.

I support all the 911 films aside from LC because it is SO bad. But I do feel a need to distance myself from them. There is Nothing wrong with constructive criticism. They need it. But they act like if you point out what is wrong with them that you ware hurting the movement instead of making improvement. But I ain't an armchair critic saying you left out this and you should say this. I just made my own film I do'nt have to rely on other people to make what I say.

And they can attack my film all day because I don't make the same stupid mistakes and I don't avoid the elephant in the room.

[jfc]

I think that we are ultimately in agreement on most of these things. And regarding your film, as I've stated in my first post (I think) You got it more right than just about anyone. And you did address the elephant nobody seems to dare stand in front of and even if for only that, you deserve congratulations.

And yes, they can't take criticism at all...too young? too dumb? who know...who cares.

Keep up the good work Ry.

Later.

[Ry]

yeh I don't know but I'm about the same age we are all in our 20s.

[jfc]

I wasn't speaking of calendar age.

I've met wise teens and immature seniors.

Age is irrelevant.

[Ry]

in that case I agree. But I think part of it has been the people with the loudest voice about Israel have been from these nearly openly racist groups. DBS for example who had on guest and was promoting a forum linked to the National Alliance as well as storm front.

So what happens is hey hear that crap and just turn off. Then when someone else says something about Zionism they assume it must be the same thing and they don't want to listen.

[NoApartheid]

I hope no one here takes this as a personal assault because it's not. I come here seeking knowledge, to put in simple form, to reach the simple man. I want to communicate.

No I totally agree with you most people can't even figure out the square root of 144 on a moment's notice let alone connect the serious issues of Israel, Zionism, Lockheed Martin etc. to nine-eleven.

My little brother well he's younger by about 10 times than my uncle but he can immediately tell you the square root of 144 is 12 which it is & he can also tell you that steel does not melt except at high temperatures exceeding 2000 degrees and that the fires did not melt those buildings, they were brought down with explosives.

He can also basically tell you that Israeli government elements enacted the attacks but now back to my point. Little by little you have to let all the complete facts set in, they can then see all of the hijackers are still alive, the FBI never even officially closed the investigation, something is rotten in denmark with these east-german people like viktor bout being allowed to sell their bombs in the US before 9-11 & over 200 Israeli mossad agents caught running around inside the towers with explosives.

They may not immediately understand what is rotten in denmark about it but perhaps that changes once they see who was in charge of NORAD, the testimony from the men at the Pentagon, & the fact that multiple Israeli companies were controlling the airports & then their partners received the contracts for the war in Afghanistan where they are continuing to make so much money off it. Then maybe looking at it further and seeing Lockheed Martin made a huge amount of money out of the 2.3 trillion dollars that was literally stolen out of the Pentagon on 9-11 by someone called Dov Zakheim and they may wonder why.

Then the facts that the same Israel owned contractors were cleaning up the rubble after the explosions might make them question further as well as the two hundred plus Mossad arrested but then flown out of the country by way of Michael Chertoff a dual citizen and a Rabbi.

Suddenly, they may wonder what the heck was going on & realize the Israelis were heavily involved in 9-11 and planted explosives right under the US Government's nose & also their friends in the military allowed them to escape even after the warrants went on red alert. At this point of the black-hole maybe they will see it is not anti-semitic but vital to bring this evidence up in court and question why Elliot Spitzer never brought any of this up in court and also had at least 6 prostitutes some of whom were linked to an israeli & why Zionism started the war on terror.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html
If they can wrap a handle on why Zionism started the war on terror then the rest of the movie can be watched and they can start brutally demanding a global investigation to get moving.

[jfc]

in that case I agree. But I think part of it has been the people with the loudest voice about Israel have been from these nearly openly racist groups. DBS for example who had on guest and was promoting a forum linked to the National Alliance as well as storm front.

So what happens is hey hear that crap and just turn off. Then when someone else says something about Zionism they assume it must be the same thing and they don't want to listen.

BINGO!!!!

That's precisely what happens and that's what we have to be careful of. In other words, as I said before, know your audience. We know who we can jump right in and say that to and it not be taken the wrong way, and we know who can't take that. But, if we get people to just want or better yet demand a new and this time real investigation...we know where all the evidence will point to and then, maybe, just maybe...justice at last. And after all, isn't that the real goal?

And while I'm on that subject. This article was on WRH this morning. Good stuff. If anybody can make this a live link and put it in it's proper place on this site i think you'll all find it to be pretty damn good.

http://thinkprogress.org/the-architects ... -they-now/

I'm out

Be cool!

[Ry]

its like I said on the radio science doesn't matter to most Americans. Saying anything about steel temperatures and you have already lost them. It has got to be as simplified as 2 planes can't knock down 3 buildings.

or you might have to say it like this

i dont know much but i know 'em two planes didn't knock down no three buildings. I ain't trusten the government. or anybody wearing a tie. a feller wearing a tie is just trying to sell you something you don't need.

[jfc]

Yeah, I know it's frustrating. But we can't hate them for it. Their ignorance is usually not based in malice. It's just the product of a lifetime of being told they should sit down, shut up, do as they're told and not make waves. Like a dog that's been beat too much, they are just...sad.

I'm on my way now to spend some time with one of my oldest friends. He's kind, he's cool, however, I suspect that he couldn't find his own dick with two hands and a map. But he'd stand in front of a train for me. There a lot's of people like him. We all know some. We can't hate them, nor can we pity them because pity is the ultimate form of condescension. Let's help them, the same way they would help you change the tire on your car. Without pretension.

I got a cold beer waiting for me...gotta go.

I really do like this forum. You're good people. Keep it up.

"Maybe there is no devil. Maybe God just drinks a little" Tom Waits