Jeff Rense and Alex Jones, Ry take on it.

[Ry]

lol buddy I am not the one with the designer history. I earned a real history degree from William & Mary (same school as John Stewart, who spoke at my graduation, and Colim Powell). In all due respect maybe it is You who might have the designer hisotry that you learned from films and radio show host who believe in space aliens and fish people. Sutton is OK, there is a lot about WWII that is not going to be spoon fed to people in high school. ps he also went to Stanford to go learn about "designer" history like the rest of us academics.

And yes I'll debate you on the banking point. Banking (and international banking) existed in India from Buddhist temples long before your monotheistic cults were even invented. The knights of the temple didn't even begin until 1118CE. Of course for most people there is no history outside of Europe. If anything this proved my point to the T. Because the Knights were nothing without the church, the popes granted them their juristiction exempt status. Their recruits (aka cannon fodder) relied on two things feverish bigotry and lust for militarism (and I would the add that the belief in an immortal soul that didn't realy die after death abetted this). They were essintially elite crusaders. Follow the money it went right back to very non-secret places what was it called oh yeah the Catholic Church.

Bankers have always had a cosey relationship with religious idiots, because without them they couldn't have their massive debt compling wars. Things have not changed; the same retards are still killing each other. Go look at the graves and all the stars and crosses.


I think Howard Zinn and Derrick Jesen ect do a great job in covering what I call not told in high school history which all most people ever get to hear.

I did not say there were no secret societies. And the ones who run the show are hardly secret. It is easy to look up who the International bankers and multi media owners are and see they are all Jews and all Zionists.

What I said in the original post is that rather then just saying what is true, people have to spin it into space aliens and satanic cults. (Unless you think the Jews and Christian evangels secretly worship the devil) and they skirt the very real issue that is empirically varifiable and undebatable issue of Zionism. Space aliens are not shooting kids in the West Bank but Zionist are.


Faces it Bush's only support left is his religious fanatics and Israeli firsters in congress.

And I already told you that the US was never a Christian nation and the Free Masons are hardly a secret. There are masonic seal on the currency. Making the Seperation of Church and State is simply following the consitution. It is not an example of secret societies weilding power. And that was never an issue because we both now that societies do manipulate power. But it is not the Secular or the Satanic cults its the Christians the Jews and the Muslims and their idiologs are anything but secret. The only secret is that religion is a farce. Well no the other secrets are how central banks control the money supply and hold political leaders by the short hairs. Just saying their roots are in Religion not away from it. If they do it for god or the devil it doesn't matter, since you do not believe in these deities then you now these men were just be controlled by other men who hid behind dogma.

organized religion works just like tyrannical governments. They utilize fear. Monotheistic gods are psychological tyrants. They are personified ficticious authority figures used to justify Jewish law. And now the law of what ever state is using them.

I know that mentioning zionism will get accusations of anti-semitism it is the only real defense they have. BUt the thing is it is Very real and VERY easy to prove. But talking about ancient military orders and... just let me ask a pointed question do you or do you not believe in aliens which have come to the planet earth to play in out politics?

If the answer is yes i am not going to laugh, I just would like to know what actual evidence there is and I don't men redneck in Arizona said he saw one. Also do you believe in ghosts because that is equally promoted by Rense. Do you think that just for a second that maybe sandwitching those tings together it is done on purpose to Discredit Zionism?

I mean I like Jeff and I really Like ALex who is the more sane of the two, but that stuff which, and I have read it, and I have also read where he went back and changed predictions, its just nonsense man.

Deism can be clean or it can be a Christian who got rid of his Bible but basically has the same messy idea as he did when he was a kid.

[Goose and Gridiron]

Ry,

Professor Sutton did indeed attend Stanford and he went on to write a book called "America's Secret Establishment". Was that book about Zionists? No. It was about a secret societies,one being "Skull & Bones" and their influence on global affairs using Hegelian dialect. He wrote other books as well,some about the Trilateral Commission. Bill Clintons' mentor Professor Carroll Quiggley made similair remarks about a secret network in "Tragedy and Hope". You said these secret societies are "hardly secret"... Then where is the next Bilderberg meeting going to be held? Why has every US administration in the last 50 years been drowning in members of the CFR and Trilateral Commission and yet their meetings are not public knowledge? How were SDI and the Manhattan Project thought up at Bohemian Grove of all places?

A couple of monks in India trading bugs with other monks is hardly the first sophisticated system of * international * banking like the Knights Templar formulated. Now you're reaching. Judging by your responces,your * obsessive * hatred for religion that goes beyond any objective questioning is causing you to see things very biased. It's not that black and white. First off,remember it was The Church who issued a Papal decree and supressed the Templars. And according to the Jewish Torah and the Christian Bible and the Muslim Koran, charging interest (usury) on a loan is strictly forbidden by God so if you think religious people are cozy with bankers,they might not be that religious to begin with.

Speaking of other "religious idiots",you can not join the recognized Freemasons unless you believe in a God. I've been meaning to devote more time to studying Zionism but you should do more research about Masonry. Start with P-2 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due

Speaking of misconceptions....The phrase "separation of church and state" does NOT,I repeat does NOT appear in the Constitution, but rather derives from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a group identifying themselves as the Danbury Baptists. Look it up. Freemasonic efforts later made the current seperation of C & S a reality in the manner I spoke of earlier.

I have no problem with Howard Zinn. I (mis)use the phrase "You can't be neutral on a moving train" often. Like Chomsky,another expert analyzer and victim of the right/left paradigm,he has his points,but he's far from being an investigator of the conspiracy we're dealing with. Do they feel 9/11 was an inside job?

You ask me for proof of aliens but I've got to ask you,what kind of mind am I dealing with? Do you have a belief system to defend? Ever try telling a Christian that the Bible is just a book of myths with alittle history thrown in there for good measure? They answer you back with biblical verses. What I'm trying to say is... Have you ever really looked into the possibilities objectively? University professors have written books on the different species of extra-terrestrials that have visited Earth. If you're serious about wanting the truth,I suggest you start by watching the Disclosure Project : http://www.netro.ca/disclosure/npccmenu.htm with over 400 government, military, and intelligence community witnesses testifying to their direct, personal, first hand experience with UFOs, ETs, ET technology, and the cover-up that keeps this information secret.

As for your original point of this topic...I don't agree with everything Jones or Rense or anybody for that matter says but I know that not everybody has the same ideas on what the NWO is and how to fight it. You need to take that into account. I'm glad your focusing all your efforts on Zionism because it's a facet of the NWO most people disregard but you can't expect everybody to adopt your worldview if the evidence points in other directions.

[Gyps]

it even runs to risky mentioning israel because then the whole anti-semitic thing happens...most people don't make a distinction, but we all know that. anyway that's the gist of it for me.

But if we don't mention Israel then we miss the entire thing. Because that is who did it. 911 was planned by zionist, PNAC was written by them. The lie factory for the intel to go to war with Iraq was a whose who of Zionist neocons. The Media propaganda which is Jew owned as well as the Banks and the Christian Evangelist made the propagada for it.

Face it, Atta was on board with Abermoff, (seriously he was always on his casino ship) they were setting up the patsies. Plus we all know nothing is as influential as the Israeli Lobby. They even had Israeli spies.They have been caught and ther MEDIA HAS NOT MENTIONED this. That is proof that the media is beholden to Jewish Interest or shall I say Zionist interest. Because Zionist interest overlap with corporate interest. I loved that the Cash cow called Israelrant that Ry wrote about the MIC carlyle and the Israeli conflict. That pretty much explains it.

Mossad agents were caught on 911 and they worked for a fake company. The moving company address was nothing but an empty warehouse. That begs for the question to be asked just What the Hell were they doing?

If anyone could get away with it. If any group could enjoy the press free critisism, it's Israel. The Bush gov might take the fal for this in the long run and Israel will get off Scott Free.

oh i'm all to well aware of the connections, and i don't believe i said not to mention israel so much as how we mention it.

in addition, i think focusing TOO hard on israel could have the same effect as focusing on aliens and black heliocopters. to easy to dismess.

in all likelihood if we enlighten in the right way, those connections will show naturally, if you know what i mean.

[japan]

This is the best discussion i have read in a long time.
All good points.
I remember being a sheep going along with the crowd,being asleep at the wheel.

I thank Alex Jones for setting me on the path .
The idea is still the same wake the people up
Point them in the right way .
Let them make up their minds.
Iam definitely pround to be posting here with you.
Let the bells of freedom ring.
A call to every man woman and child.
We are under attack and its only gonna get worse.
So wake up find the truth your truth cause in the end we will be side to side,shoulder to shoulder figting of these enemies.

[flanker12k]

this is energy i'm literally feeding off of!

WOW a real debate, w/o all the hostile innuendos (sorry my spelling sux, i'm amerikan educayted hi skooler) well no, i'm on the last stretch of finishing up a degree in chem but that's beside the point.

Sutton "threw away" a career at the hoover institute when he wrote "national suicide: military aid to the soviet union" (i don't remember the title). I studied WWII history thinking it was a great accident, until i was lead to sutton's work. I mean you can be whatever (in belief system) you want to but goose brings up a damn good point about skull and bones.
(euphemistically called skull and bastards by skolnick) I can send you the BBC radioshow about it how they chant devil = death, death = death and all sorts of crazy sheet, which to me validates the idea that its the elite's religion. and goose brings up a good point bout the round-table lymies discussed in tragedy and hope.

I think all of the elements being discussed are the cesspool of an amalgam known as the NOO WORD ODOR! New world order.
there are many elements independently and collectively working to form that.

[Ry]

A couple of monks in India trading bugs with other monks is hardly the first sophisticated system of * international * banking like the Knights Templar formulated. Now you're reaching. Judging by your responces,your * obsessive * hatred for religion that goes beyond any objective questioning is causing you to see things very biased. It's not that black and white. First off,remember it was The Church who issued a Papal decree and supressed the Templars. And according to the Jewish Torah and the Christian Bible and the Muslim Koran, charging interest (usury) on a loan is strictly forbidden by God so if you think religious people are cozy with bankers,they might not be that religious to begin with.

India had the largest cities in the world and Banks far larger than their Greek counter parts. The temples still stand today. Part of the reason Buddhism didn't stick was because it gave way to baking, much of this is because other occupations were forbidden by the Hindu much like the Jews were forced into certain occupations by Christians who forbid them to own land. This was not monks trading bugs. From Ashoka they had the Ictadari system, Asia was the leader in the world for the longest amount of time, it is where Alexander met his match. One thing Europe had a lot of was Iron and that was good for war and thus they took by force much of the world. They things backward, acceint societies were more advanced by any measuring stick than the time of MidEvil European rule. Many techs were lost. And I dont just mean burning the great library I mean everything, Eurpeans did not even clean their drinking water.

And just to correct some history, Alexander the Great was not Greek he was Macedonian yet even in some historical works you will have the Greek/roman obsessed ninnies reffer to him as Greek. His father Philip helped conquer Greece. (even greece was not greece it was rival city states each with political independence from the other, even different languages sometimes) And you know what aided them both the most? The discovery of silver mines thus allowing then to finance the entire opperation. (contorl of the money supply) The Persians he would go on to face from Darius III on had been thriving from their already existeng complex banking system. (from Iran to Egypt) (which they learned from India ..Aryan invasion bla bla) guess where that swastika symbol came from....

The Persian king Cyrus was who freed the Hebrews from Egypt (no it wasn't god as they claim) when he made the peaceful take over of Babylon's capital (which controlled Egypt at the time) because the city of Babylon (Baghdad) had an unpopular king who worshiped the moon god Sin instaed of the popular Marduk the harvest god (the hanging gardens was for him).

anyway this empire did not arise from monks trading bugs. And even at this stage it is pre-dating Judaism and it tramendoulsy pre-dates the knights of Templar by about two thousand years. Jews also had usery and goldsmith style banking before the templars or even the faith of Christianity was invented. And so did the Greeks and so did the Romans. It is very well establish fact that both the Greeks and ROmans had central banks long before the templars or even Christianity. China also had banking, although China was not China it was three seperate counties with many kingdoms. It was also not always based on gold, some times silver even olive leave at one point.

And yes the Catholic church did eventually outlaw usury, that's why we now have Protestants. They wanted to keep the money in England and they wanted interest on it. All the crap you learn about King Henry VIII wanting a divorce so he could attempt to make a son for the throne is as bs a reason for the break away as saying the civil war was only about slavery.

Fractional Reserve Banking in Europe started from the Jews. As I am sure you know about the Rothchild family entirely Jewsih. Now there are different kind of Jews, the Hebrew based and the Turkish Based Jews. And they both have different religious texts. The Turkish org ones are the roots of ZIonism and the fascist style we have today but they have morphed and over lapped with the Hebrews and the god ordained claims on Israel bla bla bla...

The KOT were a military order whose ranks were filled with Christian bigots. They got their money from the Church and their soliders and their justification to essentially go kill non-christians and take their land and resources by force. The hidden reason for using religion to go kill people was to establish trade routs into Asia, because I said Europe used to be the back-water center of the world they were not a super power, most of them couldn't read and 90% of the people lived as serfs under their religiously justified Kings and nobles who owned all the land and rented it to everyone else. If you wanted social mobiity then you had to join the military... The Christian military.

Judging by your responces,your * obsessive * hatred for religion that goes beyond any objective questioning is causing you to see things very biased

It's not an obesession with religion its just what happened, and I am not going to appoligize for what the church has done. They went on to take the entire new world away from the people living there. The Pope arrogantly divided all of it between Spain and Portugal and they over the centuries killed 50 million native Americans that is far worse than the crusaders on the inquisition or the witch trials etc..

The real evil in the world is not the secret societies its the very open Trillion dollar net worth Religious organizations who prop up these societies. With out the money from evagelous the ZIonist would fall and S&K and BG and all of those people could not continue their dirty work without the money. They dont control the church the church controls them. Only now the power shift has gone over to the Protestants. The Catholic for their part opposed the usery the banks and yes even the last war. (probably because it is a threat to their power).

The Knights of Templar were totally a Christian creation and miliatray fasction they were picke dup by St. Bernard and followed the rule of St. Benedict. The popes for many generations protected the knight exempting them from tithes or juristiction. They were privateers on the land.

They met their demise after Philip the Fair (a French King) coherced the pope to issue a commission by using torture to make tempals confesses to idol worship. This was not util 1308 so the KOT enjoyed full Christian suppport and backing from the Popes for over 200 years. The only thing secret they had was their initiation rituals. They were aborbed when the pope had their posessions striped and given over to the military Order of the Hospitallers. (better known as the Knights of Malta.)

Why? because these KOT elites had aquired a lot of property and wealth from not paying any taxes, not being subject to laws and frankly stealing wealth by force from others and engaging (church sponsored) in terrorism.

You can look at all these Orders as corporate-military-religious factions. Peopl ekill for god to take human resources from other people and under gods law they get to own all the land and tax (tithe) everyone else. We have rival MIC factions. It never changed thats what we have today, although the government gets the brunt of the blame which they desrve and the Evangelical while scoffed at escape the recognition of their part in financing and aided with propaganda the war in the Middle East.

The Freemasons today requires a higher power. The freemasons were destroyed a long time ago. They are no longer secular thus underminding the entire philosophy. They don't even allow women in the ranks. And it was Reddelicious calling them the good guys not me. I did say they WERE the goodguys. Sure way back in Jefferson's day.

And according to the Jewish Torah and the Christian Bible and the Muslim Koran, charging interest (usury) on a loan is strictly forbidden by God so if you think religious people are cozy with bankers,they might not be that religious to begin with

first of all you dont even need usury to be in the banking biz. The church WAS the bank in that they had all of the welath and all the land because they made the laws. They didn't even have to buy it they just took it. Then the people on the land pay the nobles just to live there and they had to give them their food and give the church up to 10% of their wealth and if they couldn't the curch took their posessions.

Secondly ...


The Torah is not the only holy book for Jews and there asre diffent Jewish factions just as there are different Christian factions. ( quick example: you don't see the Quakers waging war [they are passivist by doctrine] or sending money to Israel ect not did they own slaves or treat women as property). YOu have to look at the Talmud and their are two of those.

Talmud Bavli
Lets have a look at some of this fascist trash.

Just the Jews are humans, the Non-Jews are no humans, but cattle.” (goyim – human cattle) – (Kerithuth 6b page 78, Jebhammoth 61a)

“The Non-Jews have been created to serve the Jews as slaves.” - (Midrasch Talpioth 225)

“The Non-Jews have to be avoided, even more than sick pigs.” - (Orach Chaiim 57, 6a)

“Sexual intercourse with Non-Jews is like sexual intercourse with animals” – (Kethuboth 3b)

“The birth-rate of the Non-Jews has to be suppressed massively” - (Zohar II, 4b)

“As you replace lost cows and donkeys, so you shall replace dead Non-Jews.” – (Iore Dea 337,1)

“To box an Israeli on the ear, is like to box on the ear of god.” – (Sanhedrin 58b)

"God (Jahveh) is never angry about the Jews, just about the Non-Jews” – (Talmud IV/8/4a)

“The human (Jew) has to pray every day three times, because Jahveh didn’t make him a goyim, not a female and not an ignorant.” – (Talmud V/2/43b + 44a)

“Everywhere they (the Jews) come, they will be the princes of the lords” – (Sanhedrin 104a)

“I (Jahveh) make you (the Jewry) the ancestor of the peoples, I make you the selected one amongst the peoples, I make you the king over the peoples, I make you the loved one amongst the peoples, I make you the best one amongst the peoples, I make you the trsuted one amongst the peoples” – (Schabbat 105a)

“Towards a Non-Jew the Jew doesn’t cause an adultery… Punishable for the Jew, is just the adultery towards his next, that means the wife of a Jew. The wife of the Non-Jew is excluded” – (Talmud IV/4/52b)

There is no wife for the goyim, they really aren’t their wives” - (Talmud IV/4/81 + 82ab)

“You (the Jews) have made me, Jahveh, the only true lord in the world, so I will make you the only ruler in the world”

“Who wants to be smart shall occupy himself with money matters, because there are no corner pillars in the Thora that are more important, because they are like a sparkling fountain” – (Talmud IV/3/173b)

“Jews always have to try to deceive Non-Jews” – (Zohar I, 168a)

“Carry on trade with Non-Jews, if they have to pay money for it” - (Abhodah Zarah 2a T)

“Non-Jewish property belongs to the Jew who uses it first” - (Babba Bathra 54b)

“If two Jews have deceived a Non-Jew, they have to split the profit” - (Choschen Ham 183,7)

“Every Jew is allowed to use lies and perjury to bring a Non-Jew to ruin” - (Babha Kama 113a)

“The possessions of the goyim are like an ownerless desert, and everybody (every Jew) who seizes it, has acquired it” - (Talmud IV/3/54b)

“The Jew is allowed to exploit the mistake of a Non-Jew and to deceive him” - (Talmud IV/1/113b)

“The Jew is allowed to practice usury on the Non-Jew” - (Talmud IV/2/70b)

“When the Messiah comes, all will be slaves of the Jews” - (Erubin 43b)

I think that pretty much allows for at least one faction of racist jews-aka zionist to practise usury (which they did) and so forth on down to all the 'secret' organizations we have today.

The CIA is a sceret organization that is they are not a secret per-say but they meet in scret and carry out terrorism etc. BUt we know who pays their checks Uncle Sam and Drug money and weapon sales.

Remeber the Iran contra? guess who is back and guess who they tie into? this post is already too long. I can start a new thread on the CIA and Zionism etc.

ps thank you for sticking to history and being civil not just mud slinging on names etc as many people do. I just have a honest different interpretation of history and I do not belive in Space Aleins (on earth). I will address that after looking at your links because I am open minded but I highly doubt ET visitors.

[mundo]

Wow, I'm really surprised at the matter of fact debunking going on on this thread. Freemasonry, the NWO, etc. Do you seriously not believe this is true? I suggest all doubters read the Sinister Forces series written by Peter Levenda. Go to www.sinisterforces.info and check it out. I cannot recommend a book more higly. The best i've read. (and Ive read a lot!)

As far as the constant bashing of anything spiritual of religious, i agree mostly on the religious aspect. my views coincide quite a bit with Eric John Phelps and his research at www.vaticanassassins.org. (read the Reagan section for example), but I do not agree with the dismissals I read on here sometimes about spiritual matters. I myself researched Crowley and the leakings of the secrets of the Golden Dawn. Many of the strange and surreal occurences that have happened in the US since Crowley opened that can of worms can be attributed to this. Google Israel Regardie and try to find the lectures he released. They aren't easy to find, but if you put your mind to it, you will find it. I myself have a copy. I felt like Indiana Jones trying to get ahold of the Holy Grail. "They" do not want you to get ahold of this. Once again, "Israel Regardie". He was soundly villified for releasing this secret knowledge?

[Ry]

Wow, I'm really surprised at the matter of fact debunking going on on this thread. Freemasonry, the NWO, etc. Do you seriously not believe this is true?

No one of us thus far have said there was no NWO or a FreeMasons.
What I said was that the Free masons are no tthe NWO the prime group of the NWO is Zionist Christians and Jews.

Why are zionist getting a pass yet reptilian fish people get a serious look? This is planted disinformation it is to discredit the rest of the movement (even if you honestly believe in that junk you have to admit thats what it does).

And I negate claims about a secualr illuminati, aleins, devil worshipers, ect and Christian spin or in ablity to look at history and see No one has killed more poeple than the Church.

There are two devils one called God and one called Satan. But as far as the body count goes far far more have been killed in the name of God, by truely religious people who absolutely believed in all of it, than by any one else. And that goes for the communists as well they were religious just look at the crosses on their graves.

I saw an illuminati film trying to make spooky claims about the dollar bill they said Columbia was code for the Barvarians freemason iluminati from Germany. No all the stuff named Columbnia like DC and columbia films ect is from Christopher Columbus he has his own holiday too. They tried to say 1776 was the illuminatis date not that is because that is when the country was founded. And they changed New order of Secular to New Wolrd Order. No it was a secular order than meaning the first to break away from the divine right of kings to break away from religious rule.



The NWO is very real they are comprised of Zionist Neocons are religious fanatics backed by evangelicals and as Bush called it, fighting a crusade.

just follow the money, look at who owns the banks and the media its all the same poeple and its not a secret.

[Goose and Gridiron]

Just a couple things related to this discussion I'd like to touch upon... Not aimed at anybody in particular. Some visual aids used. More along the vein of the role of secret societies in every facet of society.

Long before there was any CIA,NSA,FBI,Mossad,KGB,etc... Secret societies were the prime vehicle for intelliegence gathering worldwide. As the 3 - letter agencies began to take form,the secret societies took on other roles and formed inner rings also known as the "shadow government". The rogue CIA has gotten caught trying to implement policy on it's own many times. It's no wonder why most of the agencies behave like secret societies and so many Skull & Bonesman have also been CIA directors. Issues of "national security".

Speaking of "divine right of kings" and religion,everyone should know that the majority of Christian Bible translators have oddly enough been Freemasons,King James being the most famous,and the Craft has alot to do with religion. To this day,Freemasons have their own unique versions of the Bible. Freemasonry also influenced the creation of many other religions including The Jehovahs' Witness' and Mormonism.

Various masonic bibles





Mr. Jehovahs' Witness himself - Charles Taze Russells' grave,whose family also founded Skull & Bones at Yale,adorned with masonic symbolism


Freemason Joseph Smith copied the Mormon Endowment ceremony directly from the Blue Lodge degrees of Freemasonry. Besides similar penalties, there are also similar signs, arm positions, ear whisperings, passwords and handgrips. For instance, compare the "First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood" grip with the "First Degree" Masonic grip:




Welcome to Israel. Nice landmark below. Zionist symbology is Freemasonic first and foremost. Freemasonry has put enormous emphasis on rebuilding Solomon's Temple. The Zionist "Star of David" is in effect the masonic "Seal of Solomon". Anybody who has put the legwork in knows that Freemasonry has had a tremendous influence on the United States and Europe,but it bears the same globally.











THE LAST 10 PRESIDENTS AND THEIR AFFILATIONS with added comments

1945-1953 Harry S. Truman, 33rd. President of The United States (D) Confirmed Mason. Also a member of the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR). Truman was Initiated: February 9, 1909, Belton Lodge No. 450, Belton, Missouri. Truman's rise as a politician is traceable to Masonic sponsorship. He said that being Grand Master for the whole state of Missouri helped him win a U.S. Senate Seat in 1940. Truman's sister, Mary Jane Truman, was the Grand Matron of Missouri in the Order of the Eastern Star.

1953-1961 Dwight D. Eisenhower, 34th. President of the United States (R) Member of the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) and the all-male Bohemian Club to which every Republican President since Herbert Hoover has belonged. Eisenhower nominated 33rd degree mason Earl Warren to Chief Justice(as in the "Warren Commission" that spear-headed the JFK assassination investigation)Special thanks to Arlen Spector, also a mason, who made up the "magic bullet theory".

1961-1963 John F. Kennedy, 35th. President of the United States (D) First Catholic President. Assassinated in Dallas. Note: Days prior to his death, he said: "The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings."

1963-1969 Lyndon B. Johnson, 36th. President of the United States (D) Confirmed Mason. Member of the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR). Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey, 1965-1969. Confirmed Mason.

1969-1974 Richard M. Nixon, 37th. President of the United States (R) Member of the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR). and Bohemian Grove. Vice President Gerald R. Ford, 1973 1974. Confirmed Mason. Note: Again we have a non mason President replaced by a Mason Vice President before a non Mason President dies or is forced out of office.

1974-1977 Gerald R. Ford. 38th. President of the United States (R) Confirmed Mason and member of the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) and Bohemian Grove. Vice President Nelson A. Rockefeller 1974-1977. Ford was Initiated: September 30, 1949, Malta Lodge No. 465, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Ford was made a Sovereign Grand Inspector General, 33°, and Honorary Member, Supreme Council A.A.S.R.

1977-1981 James E. Carter, 39th. President of the United States (D) Member of the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR).

1981-1989 Ronald Reagan, 40th. President of the United States (R) Confirmed honorary member of the Imperial Council of the Shrine and honorary Scottish Rite mason and also a Bohemian Grove member.

1989-1993 George H. W. Bush, 41st. President of the United States (R) Confirmed member of Skull & Bones, the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR), and The Trilateral Commission. Ex Director of the CIA. Also a member of the all-male ultra-exclusive Bohemian Club to which every Republican President since Herbert Hoover has belonged.

1993-2000 William J. Clinton, 42nd. President of the United States (D) Confirmed Order of DeMolay(masonic org), Rhodes Scholar, CFR member, Trilateral Commission member and Bilderberger participant. He joined the Council on Foreign Relations in 1989, attended a Bilderberg meeting in 1991 and was a current member of the Trilateral Commission at the time of his nomination.

2000 - WW3 George "Baby" Bush Jr. Becomes the 43rd President of the United States. Confirmed member of Skull and Bones

[Ry]

Um they had Kings and had been killing plenty of people before King James was Ever born and long before the Bible was ever translated into English.

The CIA came from a secret society in the US called the Know Nothings. Mainly out of New York.

Those poeple are not the Free Masons of the Secular order of Jefferson's Day like Madison and Tyler ect. People like Joseph Smith are holy rollers they are religious fanatics.

Thats my point, its not aleins or repitle people or devil worshipers or atheist. It is ZIONIST, and RELIGOUS FANATICS who are openly backed by the hundreds of Billions of dollars from Religious institutions. And the entire concept of their ruling governing bodies from the Egyptian Pharroh to the Kings of Spain to the Emporer of Japan was and is based on religious dogma.

The real enemey we have the backbone to all these cults or (occult) is religious wealth and dogma. Zionism creates a corporate cashcow for the MIC. And that is why we kill, steal, and torture.

We KNOW about the secret societies. It's the blame shifting of their roots and finances to the secular, the devil, or things from outerspace, that we have beef with. Its religion plain and simple. The Zionist Neocons are the elephant in the room. Are any of those people Not zionist? nope it's the uniting thread.

ps Goose have you posted in the new people section yet?