Trayvon Brutally Beat and Broke the Nose of the Neighborhood

[Rio]

kid was a piece of shit just like zimmerman. why do they only shows pics of when he was younger. Where are his thugged out pics?

Just because you dress thugged out and post silly pictures on yourself flipping off the camera doesn't mean that you deserve to be shot down in the street like a dog. I'm pretty sure that you have a few pictures that you wouldn't be too proud of as well. Hell we all do.

why do they only shows pics of when he was younger.

Because those were the pictures that the family originally released to the media.

When my father died, our family did not release photos of when he was young and into thug culture, we released pictures of him being a family man, working, and enjoying his different hobbies.

That was how the family chose to portray him and how they wanted him to be remembered. Can you blame them for that? Did you think that his parents had access to his "thugged out" pictures on Twitter or something and that they would want these pictures to be released? Sure the media is biased, but those thugged out pictures are being pushed along by idiots who want to defend Zimmerman for murdering Martin.

Well maybe the media should do a little research. The pics of Martin as an older kid have been available for awhile now. There is no need to keep showing this photo of him at 12 year's old. It's intentionally deceptive to rile people up that some 250 pound dude (even though he isn't nearly that big anymore) got in a fight with some 12 year old looking 120 pount weakling. It's a deception, plain and simple.

I don't blame the Martin family for releasing that photo, but I certainly blame the media for going along with it without any research on their part.

Wow the media not being honest and having an agenda what a shock there. Shouldn't have anything to do with the facts, but that's the best defense that people who are trying to portray this as a justifiable killing have.

[Int'l man of mystery]

Getting your head slammed into the ground isn't a serious situation? Zimmerman (through his brother) says he managed to move his head off the concrete to the grass because he didn't think he could take any more blows to the concrete. I'm sorry, if someone takes multipe blows from the back of the head to concrete, they are liable to have some serious brain damage.

Even so, it seems strange that he couldn't put up any resistance with his hands from his head being punched into the concrete, yet was able to get to his gun from a much more inconvenient position, and was even able to shoot Martin with it.

How many times was his face hit by Martin? At least once or twice, we simply don't know the extent to Zimmerman's facial injuries. I don't think it is unreasonable he could have been screaming for help. If he sustained more blows to the back of the head he might not have been able to.

It seems more likely that he would be screaming in pain in that position. If he was screaming for help, then it seems he would have either managed to restrain Martin somehow from pummeling him, or he and Martin were locked in each others' grip, or he was screaming for help while Martin was chasing him.

If Martin has Zimmerman pinned to the ground, and he goes from pummeling Zimmerman to go for his gun, that would give Zimmerman an opening to also go for the gun. If Martin kept pummeling Zimmerman he very well might not have had a chance to actually get to his gun and get a shot off and Martin may not have stopped beating him until the cops came.

If Zimmerman couldn't use his hand(s) to defend himself from Martin allegedly pummeling him, then how was he able to use his hand(s) while Martin was allegedly going for his gun? The position of either of them wouldn't have changed. All Martin would have to do is hold his face down while going for his gun and there would be nothing Zimmerman could have done about it.

Therefore, Zimmerman either wasn't pinned to the ground, or Martin eased off of him, either not seeing his gun, seeing it and not thinking anything of it, or retreating in fear of it.

They interviewed Zimmerman for about 5 hours. There are a lot of things we just don't know.

Undoubtedly, and I'm still wondering why the photos of Zimmerman's injuries have not been released yet.

[Phys]

Why wasn't Zimmerman's injuries photographed? Zimmerman came to the police station handcuffed? If Zimmerman's wasn't arrested, why did the police take custody of Zimmerman's coat? If he was arrested, why was he released?

The man needs to be arrested and there was/is probable cause to arrest him. Zimmerman killed Martin no doubt about it.

[Axe Kick]

If Zimmerman couldn't use his hand(s) to defend himself from Martin allegedly pummeling him, then how was he able to use his hand(s) while Martin was allegedly going for his gun? The position of either of them wouldn't have changed. All Martin would have to do is hold his face down while going for his gun and there would be nothing Zimmerman could have done about it.

Well, simple, then Martin wasn't holding his face down while going for the gun. He could have went for the gun with both hands, which gave Zimmerman an opening. It's speculation either way.

Therefore, Zimmerman either wasn't pinned to the ground, or Martin eased off of him, either not seeing his gun, seeing it and not thinking anything of it, or retreating in fear of it.

Well we have an eyewitness who said he clearly saw Martin on top of Zimmerman shortly before the shooting. He has been the witness with the most definitive statement that I've so far seen. Also Zimmerman's injuries are consistent with Martin being on top of him and with his story.

Undoubtedly, and I'm still wondering why the photos of Zimmerman's injuries have not been released yet.

Don't know, there's lots of things that haven't been released so far. We keep getting these random leaks. IMO, even more important is the ballistics analysis. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Axe Kick]

Why wasn't Zimmerman's injuries photographed? Zimmerman came to the police station handcuffed? If Zimmerman's wasn't arrested, why did the police take custody of Zimmerman's coat? If he was arrested, why was he released?

The man needs to be arrested and there was/is probable cause to arrest him. Zimmerman killed Martin no doubt about it.

Zimmerman's injuries were allegedly photographed. They just haven't been released yet. Along with many other things. Zimmerman also allegedly went to the hospital the next day, which there would be records of.

You can't charge somebody with a crime just because somebody is dead. You have to have probably cause that they committed a crime. That's the point of having self-defense laws. Not everybody get's charge just because they used lethal force.

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force...

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful

Simply stated, if they didn't feel Zimmerman's use of lethal force was unlawful per the law, then they wouldn't charge him.

[Phys]

Battered women are arrested all the time because they killed a person. It has to be proven that they were defending themselves. They are initially arrested.

Zimmerman was never arrested no mug shot, no finger printing nothing. The police still took his jacket although Zimmerman wasn't arrested. He should have been able to walk out with all his belongings if there was no investigation to be done. That video tape of Zimmerman at the police station was 30mins after Zimmerman was supposedly fighting for his life. The press had a prior mug shot to use because Zimmerman did have a police record.

Whatever Trayvon has done or not done at school, he still didn't have a criminal record and Zimmerman knew none of this. He was just an overzealous fat guy who did have a criminal record.

[Axe Kick]

Once again, the law says that police may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force, which they did. At the very least, they interviewed Zimmerman and got witness statements. Zimmerman complied with everything and didn't get a lawyer that night.

Also, the law says an arrest may not be made unless there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful, eventually they came to the conclusion that it wasn't unlawful, so no arrest.

If you don't like the laws on the books, then work to change them. But don't charge a guy ex-post facto.

[Int'l man of mystery]

Well, simple, then Martin wasn't holding his face down while going for the gun. He could have went for the gun with both hands, which gave Zimmerman an opening. It's speculation either way.

Then what would Zimmerman's hands have been doing before Martin allegedly decided to go for the gun?

Well we have an eyewitness who said he clearly saw Martin on top of Zimmerman shortly before the shooting. He has been the witness with the most definitive statement that I've so far seen. Also Zimmerman's injuries are consistent with Martin being on top of him and with his story.

Then it seems more likely that Zimmerman would've either gripped Martin's arms while yelling for help, and/or Martin would have begun to retreat from the assault at that point.

Don't know, there's lots of things that haven't been released so far. We keep getting these random leaks. IMO, even more important is the ballistics analysis. We'll just have to wait and see.

I agree. The ballistics analysis would shed more light on how this happened.

[Ry]

probable cause that the force used was unlawful

how about a dead body with him pushing on the back and being told by the dispatcher not to follow the person he had decided was a criminal trying to break in houses. Its already not self defense as he created the entire situation to begin with by his prejudice nosy suspicion and decision to go follow him on foot because "they always get away" teens crime was being black with a hoodie and walking outside in Zimmerman's neighborhood.

[Axe Kick]

probable cause that the force used was unlawful

how about a dead body with him pushing on the back and being told by the dispatcher not to follow the person he had decided was a criminal trying to break in houses. Its already not self defense as he created the entire situation to begin with by his prejudice nosy suspicion and decision to go follow him on foot because "they always get away" teens crime was being black with a hoodie and walking outside in Zimmerman's neighborhood.

Yeah, if he chased him down and cornered him I'd agree, except that's not how it went down according to the available evidence. The guy outran Zimmerman, as evidenced by the Zimmerman call to the non-emergency line. And they later met up while Zimmerman was on his way back to his car (Zimmerman alleges). So it seems an awful lot like Martin doubled back to get a piece of Zimmerman. Does anyone actually believe Martin couldn't have easily gotten away or gotten home. So he doubles back to Zimmerman and then starts the fight. To me that means shooting = justified.

The problem I have with the pro-Martin side of this is that you are basically saying that because Zimmerman chased Martin prior to them actually meeting up, that he loses his right to self-defence. I just don't see it that way.