Spain and Canada legalize Gay marriage

[that_girl_cindy]

"In a free democracy, all people must be treated equally, unless those people are harming others. But 2 consenting adults that fall in love with each other must, in a free society, be given the same rights as anyone else. To not do that, is merely bigoted and not cumulative of a free society. To make laws based on biblical principals is not tantamount to a free society and starts to lead to a sort of nationalism that we've seen in Italy and germany. Again, in those kind of states, Jews were looked as an abberation from nature..think about it..see any similarities in the way we treat gays today?" - Left Of Larry

Dude, dude.. enough with the Nazi-references. It's definitely not THAT serious. I agree, Homosexuality should be an accepted thing and its all part of a free society and whatnot but that is far as hell from gassing, incinerating, and murdering 10 million people.

And I'm not really sure what to say to Iconoclast because he's got the weirdest mix of beliefs I've ever encountered. I'm not even really sure where to begin. It does make him interesting, though. I disagree with him on most points. But I dunno.. that's kind of the fun in it, heh, heh.

Look, no it's not the same, however in ideology it is.. most of these people have so much hatred towards gay people that they would not mind seeing them gassed or murdered..hell how many hate crimes have we seen towards gay people where they HAVE been murdered. It's nationalistic and fascist in ideology, that's all. And maybe we will not go to the EXTREME of what the nazi's did, however, by denying basic civil rights, we are in essence depriving gay people of the freedom for the pursuit of happiness that they should be allowed to have like the rest of us. To not do that, ideologically speakin is in fact fascist, because it looks at a demographic and judges them and denys them rights because of it. that is wrong......

This has become a game of emotions now. I don't care what crimes are and have been committed against gays, I don't believe their union should be recognized as equal to a heterosexual union.

Hey man...it's all good.. you have an opinion I have mine... emotions are obviously part of human existence.. what we are trying to do here is to discuss our opinions. By you saying, "that is how I feel and that's that", does not partake in dialogue.. you're reasons against gay marriage are very narrow.. you give no substantial evidnce on why it is wrong except for the fat that "it is wrong and it's a disease" etc.... So expect rebuttal based on constitutional, moral, ethical, and in some cases religious grounds on why we belive you are wrong. This is a dialogue...my friend..not a diatribe... we respect your opinons here..but expect rebuttal that's all.. As an atheist, I feel strongly about this as you must as well, as an atheist.... anyway...hey..it's all good...I value your views, you see it as wrong....I see it as perfectly natural....these are the arguments that go on in our governemnt all the time, maybe we should all run for elected offices..lol....

Yeah. I agree with that guy (girl?). I had so much to say but we just had a black out and lost it all. I don't know. I'll probably repost what I remember eventually.

[Ry]

interestingly even in the days where homosexuality was perfectly accepted, when the Greeks and Romans had homosexual leaders etc they never had homosexual marriages. Marriage seemed to be for making babies.

There are a TONS of metrosexuals and bisexuals who are not really biologically gay. It's a trend for some people whose sexuality is that maluable. However there are people who are just gay, just born gay like a person being born left handed. I think that they love just as deeply and deserve all of the same institutiins to validate it like marriage the same as straights.

[that_girl_cindy]

interestingly even in the days where homosexuality was perfectly accepted, when the Greeks and Romans had homosexual leaders etc they never had homosexual marriages. Marriage seemed to be for making babies.

There are a TONS of metrosexuals and bisexuals who are not really biologically gay. It's a trend for some people whose sexuality is that maluable. However there are people who are just gay, just born gay like a person being born left handed. I think that they love just as deeply and deserve all of the same institutiins to validate it like marriage the same as straights.

I second that.

[mediasyko]

Just do away with marriage!! (on an gov't issue) marriage should be private like religion, after all they usually go hand in hand.

[Ry]

I agree, do away with it however not until we get rid of laws and privilages that are associated with marriage.

[hate edge]

interestingly even in the days where homosexuality was perfectly accepted, when the Greeks and Romans had homosexual leaders etc they never had homosexual marriages. Marriage seemed to be for making babies.

Ah, herein lies the point. Marriage is an institution which was created to allow for the nurture of offspring in a stable family environment such that they would one day have the experience to do the same. It was the finest means for passing on traditions, values, and culture to posterity, and allowed discourse between generations to take place.

In a society where the stability of marriage is at stake, it's interesting to notice that culture declines and generation gaps are omnipresent.

[Ry]

Ah, herein lies the point. Marriage is an institution which was created to allow for the nurture of offspring in a stable family environment such that they would one day have the experience to do the same. It was the finest means for passing on traditions, values, and culture to posterity, and allowed discourse between generations to take place.

In a society where the stability of marriage is at stake, it's interesting to notice that culture declines and generation gaps are omnipresent.

let's remember too that at this time women were treated as property and a marriage was more of a property arrangment with complex dowries etc. It was a contract much like buying land or a horse. The family of the bride actually paid to have another take her off their hands.

Two women could not get married because neither would have any holdings and it would be impossible to live. And two men could not be married or would not be when they could marry a women and get a virtual slave out of it. As far as love/lust went they could do that with other men/boys even while they were married to a woman.

[Fat Pat]

interestingly even in the days where homosexuality was perfectly accepted, when the Greeks and Romans had homosexual leaders etc they never had homosexual marriages. Marriage seemed to be for making babies.

Ah, herein lies the point. Marriage is an institution which was created to allow for the nurture of offspring in a stable family environment such that they would one day have the experience to do the same. It was the finest means for passing on traditions, values, and culture to posterity, and allowed discourse between generations to take place.

In a society where the stability of marriage is at stake, it's interesting to notice that culture declines and generation gaps are omnipresent.

Yeah, but we don't live in a fantasy world where marriage is making for the best-raised kids. We live in the real world where there are single moms, orphans, and kids who are abused. We're discouraging some GREAT parents from helping out kids without any. I don't care what anyone says. People against Gay Marriage (or at least the equal treatment of Gay couples) aren't being empathetic enough and are actually hurting children in the end. Orphans are only going to become more numerous. Instituting a kind of marriage that opens up thousands of new couples to adoption (especially when adoption's the only way they can HAVE kids) only helps orphans.

[Iconoclast]

interestingly even in the days where homosexuality was perfectly accepted, when the Greeks and Romans had homosexual leaders etc they never had homosexual marriages. Marriage seemed to be for making babies.

Ah, herein lies the point. Marriage is an institution which was created to allow for the nurture of offspring in a stable family environment such that they would one day have the experience to do the same. It was the finest means for passing on traditions, values, and culture to posterity, and allowed discourse between generations to take place.

In a society where the stability of marriage is at stake, it's interesting to notice that culture declines and generation gaps are omnipresent.

Yeah, but we don't live in a fantasy world where marriage is making for the best-raised kids. We live in the real world where there are single moms, orphans, and kids who are abused. We're discouraging some GREAT parents from helping out kids without any. I don't care what anyone says. People against Gay Marriage (or at least the equal treatment of Gay couples) aren't being empathetic enough and are actually hurting children in the end. Orphans are only going to become more numerous. Instituting a kind of marriage that opens up thousands of new couples to adoption (especially when adoption's the only way they can HAVE kids) only helps orphans.

You're making the mistake of building on top of symptoms and not attacking the root. We need to have LESS orphans, less single mothers and fathers, and less abused kids. Making amends for preexisting problems is only going to lead to worse problems in the future; we need to destroy the problems at their foundations.

[Fat Pat]

I'm just saying it'd definitely give us temporary relief. Other things need to happen on the orphan issue, for sure. It's not gonna solve it. But it definitely will help.