Arguing with an antiwar but Pro Obama sheep

[Ry]

I just wrote me friend who is a total Obama supporter who became a fan of the constitution on face book. So I wrote lol how can you support the constitution AND obama.

he wrote http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-mahe ... 15354.html
which is a link to a Bill Maher article that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

I wrote to make it simple as possible.

Obama, pro-war, pro torture, pro-spying, pro-bailouts, and just gave insurance companies and big pharma the healthcare bill they wanted. But hey Bush was... that's right he was also prowar, pro torture pro domestic spying and pro bail out and a shill for big pharma. But hey there is one difference. The title is different. Obama is on the blue team you see so that make it all OK when he does it.

He writes
So don't stop: we need to regulate the banks, we need to overhaul immigration, we need to end corporate welfare including at the Pentagon, we need to bring troops home from... everywhere, we need to end the drug war, and we need to put terrorists and other human rights violators on trial in civilian courts, starting with Dick Cheney.


I write
Yeh Cheney belongs in jail. Have a listen to this http://antiwar.com/radio/2010/03/27/glenn-greenwald-25/
Because it seem like you used to be one of those people. We do need to end the war, stop the IMF from raping the third world, end corporate welfare etc. Just gotta know that Obama is every bit a corporate sell out as Bush was if not even more so. I just want you to acknowledge that. I knew you'd come around.



"Dear Ryan, I Love the Constitution and have had a copy on my wall for many many years I love that document as I love the writing of the philosophers who's insight inspired that nobel document Rousseau,John Locke,Montesquieu...
are you still in the habit of reflex scorn on all other opinions but your own & falsely believing there is no insight to ... which you are not privy. your a great guy but you live in the conspiracy theory world .. Fact is the present administration is a massive step in the right direction for the USA &World "

So I wrote

You live in a world of party egoism. How can you yell about ending the wars and all that but then be a fan of Obama. You've got to be willfully ignorant to continue to believe that Obama is anti-war or against corporate welfare. You always dodge that question. You just continue supporting a warmongering idiot because of what? Either you don't know that he is a warmonger idiot which would make you an idiot, or you changed your mind and think that war is OK now and corporate welfare is OK because team blue is doing it. Now you're not that dumb so I think its psychological. Like a Religious zealot you can rationalize ANYTHING done by your tribe because you already invested so much of your ego in hating Bush that you can not mentally accept that your supporting all of his policies under a new man.

The fact is the present administration has INCREASED all of Bush's policies. All but one bail out was on Obama's watch. The war in Afghanistan has tripled. The War in Iraq has doubled in private mercenaries.

You have no argument. You have no specifics. The best thing you can say is an abstraction like "right direction". Try backing it up. It flies in the face of what is going on. We're still at war, he is putting more sanctions on Iran, we've just sent more troops to Afghanistan, he's spent over a 8 trillion dollars. How the hell can you be THAT blind?.

he deleted it so I replied

and writes
"Democrats in America were put on earth to do one thing: drag the ignorant hillbilly half of this country into the next century, which in their case is the 19th -- and by passing health care, the Democrats saved their brand. A few months ago, Sarah Palin mockingly asked them, "How's that hopey-changey thing working out for ya?" Great, actually. Thanks for asking. And how's that whole Hooked on Phonics thing working out for you?" Bill Maher

So I write

That's your thing. You attach yourself to the image of being smart and over throwing the dumb rednecks like Palin. Guess what though buddy your man Obama doesn't differ from idiots like Pailn policy wise. They are both pro war etc I sound like a broken record. You don't get it. You are all about the party. You don't care what they do so long as ... See moreyour team wins ... See morethey can do all the SAME things as the Republicans and you are fine with it. It's only bad to shoot kids when a redneck does it. When a black guy does it then its OK. http://www.ancreport.com/forum/v ... =73&t=5027 written in 2007

then I wrote again since he deleted my first posting of it.

actually delete it again ill make a youtube video reading your retarded posts and replying to them. You can't be antiwar and support war. You can't be anti corporate welfare but support corporate welfare. But you are! You actually are that brain damaged to support Obama no matter what he does just because you hate the red team. I hate the red team ... See moretoo. But I hate them because of what they DID which is the say thing the Democrats are doing. It's not about dissing an image of rednecks or the south or some other judgmental prejudice. That's for you guys.

White,black ,Indian ,Asian ...country or City what ever religion ,creed ,color people are to be judged by the content of their character and their actions...
I don't know who your talking to Ryan apparently it is yourself and or some other people. In what you conceive to be my position you are far off the mark& have no idea what my thoughts and feelings are... I don't give a damn about parties .I think the whole system is corrupt. However I am trying to make the best progress I can with what is available.If it was my choice I would put in a very different form of government and society, one much more closely Identifiable with the constitution &the american state papers. I know you have traveled extensively so have I, been out of the states most of the last 25 years as you know there is much to learn everywhere and the borders are just constructs of the rich and powerful.. Good humans are everywhere.. where there is an idea I think is valid and a step in the right direction I try to give a do my personal best & perhaps nudge society in the best direction given the present set of variables . If you want to become insulated in a small cell & factionalize any hope for non violent change & lose every election ,well ,divide and conquer is the oldest trick in the book& that is why the right has gotten it's way in the US for far too long. in Europe & most other modern countries there are many parties and they all share a proportion of the power. In the US the Right wing is so lock stepped we will never get a chance to make decisions if we are divided. If you want to be a militant or start a terrorist organization to achieve change well I don't recommend that. It appears changing the system from the inside if possible is best as revolutions are most often bloody and bring worse tyrants into power too often . Please stop with the high school your team my team crap we are adults I'm 45 and have seen a great deal of the world stop assuming I'm an idiot cause I'm not in lock step with you, please.
thanks for your always enlightening insight.
Best wishes to you &your family
Aloha&mahalo ... See more


Then WHY are supporting Obama and just How has anything he's done fit with what you say you support. I pushed your buttons on the team crap because you sent links about a comedian making fun of Republicans. You have no substance. This is the puzzle. I KNOW you're truly against war, theft etc. Thus that is why I can not figure out why you would rationalize the Obama administration as if they haven't increased the war, spent trillions on bailouts, support sanctions on Iran etc. The only thing you might be holding on to is his staunch support for Israel. But Bush was the same there too. So exactly why other than image and team are you so against the last administration but for Obama. You can not say with a straight face that Obama is for peace and justice. He isn't.

[Int'l man of mystery]

I just wrote me friend who is a total Obama supporter who became a fan of the constitution on face book. So I wrote lol how can you support the constitution AND obama.

he wrote http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-mahe ... 15354.html
which is a link to a Bill Maher article that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

I wrote to make it simple as possible.

Obama, pro-war, pro torture, pro-spying, pro-bailouts, and just gave insurance companies and big pharma the healthcare bill they wanted. But hey Bush was... that's right he was also prowar, pro torture pro domestic spying and pro bail out and a shill for big pharma. But hey there is one difference. The title is different. Obama is on the blue team you see so that make it all OK when he does it.

He writes
So don't stop: we need to regulate the banks, we need to overhaul immigration, we need to end corporate welfare including at the Pentagon, we need to bring troops home from... everywhere, we need to end the drug war, and we need to put terrorists and other human rights violators on trial in civilian courts, starting with Dick Cheney.


I write
Yeh Cheney belongs in jail. Have a listen to this http://antiwar.com/radio/2010/03/27/glenn-greenwald-25/
Because it seem like you used to be one of those people. We do need to end the war, stop the IMF from raping the third world, end corporate welfare etc. Just gotta know that Obama is every bit a corporate sell out as Bush was if not even more so. I just want you to acknowledge that. I knew you'd come around.



"Dear Ryan, I Love the Constitution and have had a copy on my wall for many many years I love that document as I love the writing of the philosophers who's insight inspired that nobel document Rousseau,John Locke,Montesquieu...
are you still in the habit of reflex scorn on all other opinions but your own & falsely believing there is no insight to ... which you are not privy. your a great guy but you live in the conspiracy theory world .. Fact is the present administration is a massive step in the right direction for the USA &World "

So I wrote

You live in a world of party egoism. How can you yell about ending the wars and all that but then be a fan of Obama. You've got to be willfully ignorant to continue to believe that Obama is anti-war or against corporate welfare. You always dodge that question. You just continue supporting a warmongering idiot because of what? Either you don't know that he is a warmonger idiot which would make you an idiot, or you changed your mind and think that war is OK now and corporate welfare is OK because team blue is doing it. Now you're not that dumb so I think its psychological. Like a Religious zealot you can rationalize ANYTHING done by your tribe because you already invested so much of your ego in hating Bush that you can not mentally accept that your supporting all of his policies under a new man.

The fact is the present administration has INCREASED all of Bush's policies. All but one bail out was on Obama's watch. The war in Afghanistan has tripled. The War in Iraq has doubled in private mercenaries.

You have no argument. You have no specifics. The best thing you can say is an abstraction like "right direction". Try backing it up. It flies in the face of what is going on. We're still at war, he is putting more sanctions on Iran, we've just sent more troops to Afghanistan, he's spent over a 8 trillion dollars. How the hell can you be THAT blind?.

he deleted it so I replied

and writes
"Democrats in America were put on earth to do one thing: drag the ignorant hillbilly half of this country into the next century, which in their case is the 19th -- and by passing health care, the Democrats saved their brand. A few months ago, Sarah Palin mockingly asked them, "How's that hopey-changey thing working out for ya?" Great, actually. Thanks for asking. And how's that whole Hooked on Phonics thing working out for you?" Bill Maher

So I write

That's your thing. You attach yourself to the image of being smart and over throwing the dumb rednecks like Palin. Guess what though buddy your man Obama doesn't differ from idiots like Pailn policy wise. They are both pro war etc I sound like a broken record. You don't get it. You are all about the party. You don't care what they do so long as ... See moreyour team wins ... See morethey can do all the SAME things as the Republicans and you are fine with it. It's only bad to shoot kids when a redneck does it. When a black guy does it then its OK. http://www.ancreport.com/forum/v ... =73&t=5027 written in 2007

then I wrote again since he deleted my first posting of it.

actually delete it again ill make a youtube video reading your retarded posts and replying to them. You can't be antiwar and support war. You can't be anti corporate welfare but support corporate welfare. But you are! You actually are that brain damaged to support Obama no matter what he does just because you hate the red team. I hate the red team ... See moretoo. But I hate them because of what they DID which is the say thing the Democrats are doing. It's not about dissing an image of rednecks or the south or some other judgmental prejudice. That's for you guys.

White,black ,Indian ,Asian ...country or City what ever religion ,creed ,color people are to be judged by the content of their character and their actions...
I don't know who your talking to Ryan apparently it is yourself and or some other people. In what you conceive to be my position you are far off the mark& have no idea what my thoughts and feelings are... I don't give a damn about parties .I think the whole system is corrupt. However I am trying to make the best progress I can with what is available.If it was my choice I would put in a very different form of government and society, one much more closely Identifiable with the constitution &the american state papers. I know you have traveled extensively so have I, been out of the states most of the last 25 years as you know there is much to learn everywhere and the borders are just constructs of the rich and powerful.. Good humans are everywhere.. where there is an idea I think is valid and a step in the right direction I try to give a do my personal best & perhaps nudge society in the best direction given the present set of variables . If you want to become insulated in a small cell & factionalize any hope for non violent change & lose every election ,well ,divide and conquer is the oldest trick in the book& that is why the right has gotten it's way in the US for far too long. in Europe & most other modern countries there are many parties and they all share a proportion of the power. In the US the Right wing is so lock stepped we will never get a chance to make decisions if we are divided. If you want to be a militant or start a terrorist organization to achieve change well I don't recommend that. It appears changing the system from the inside if possible is best as revolutions are most often bloody and bring worse tyrants into power too often . Please stop with the high school your team my team crap we are adults I'm 45 and have seen a great deal of the world stop assuming I'm an idiot cause I'm not in lock step with you, please.
thanks for your always enlightening insight.
Best wishes to you &your family
Aloha&mahalo ... See more


Then WHY are supporting Obama and just How has anything he's done fit with what you say you support. I pushed your buttons on the team crap because you sent links about a comedian making fun of Republicans. You have no substance. This is the puzzle. I KNOW you're truly against war, theft etc. Thus that is why I can not figure out why you would rationalize the Obama administration as if they haven't increased the war, spent trillions on bailouts, support sanctions on Iran etc. The only thing you might be holding on to is his staunch support for Israel. But Bush was the same there too. So exactly why other than image and team are you so against the last administration but for Obama. You can not say with a straight face that Obama is for peace and justice. He isn't.

Just ask "why are you supporting Obama?" and see how he responds. Direct, simple, question & answer sessions are the best treatment for someone who isn't thinking properly (or has too much emotional baggage).

[Ian]

Just ask "why are you supporting Obama?" and see how he responds. Direct, simple, question & answer sessions are the best treatment for someone who isn't thinking properly (or has too much emotional baggage).

That hasn't really worked in my experience. They will say Obama is _________ and then you say no, obama is not _________ because he's only done the opposite of _______. Then you generally get the same tired excuses like: "He's only been in office for one year." and "Well, he's certainly better than Bush." or "I don't know, I think we're headed in the right direction, though."

This entire conversation Ry had is pretty much par for the course in my opinion. Except the difference between arguing with Libs about why Obama is not liberal and Cons about why Bush was not conservative is the libs don't get angry, they make excuses. The Bush votes I used to argue with about Bush would flat out tell me I was a terrorist, hahaa.

You live in a world of party egoism. How can you yell about ending the wars and all that but then be a fan of Obama. You've got to be willfully ignorant to continue to believe that Obama is anti-war or against corporate welfare. You always dodge that question.

[600ccdevil]

This is typical of religious and political zealots. No matter what you say to them they just don't seem to see the truth. You can sit there for hours and hours pounding common sense and facts into their heads and it would all be to no avail. These people are so ingrained in their beliefs that their own leader can tell them the truth and they would probably just think that he was being forced or possessed or joking or whatever. You know what though? All you need to do is plant that little seed of doubt in them. Their common sense and logic will nurture it until it grows into a tree of truth inside them. If it doesn't grow then there was no hope for them anyway. Their brain is barren land. They are forever doomed to be a brainless follower, falling for the first thing someone sold them on. Whether that be religion or politics.

[Int'l man of mystery]

That hasn't really worked in my experience. They will say Obama is _________ and then you say no, obama is not _________ because he's only done the opposite of _______. Then you generally get the same tired excuses like: "He's only been in office for one year." and "Well, he's certainly better than Bush." or "I don't know, I think we're headed in the right direction, though."

Yes, but that's if you start to present an argument to them, and when that happens, they always feel like they're being challenged and need to come up with something to counter with, and it just becomes a pissing contest.

However, if you only ask questions, then there is nothing for them to counter, and all they can do is either answer the question, or not answer the question.

This entire conversation Ry had is pretty much par for the course in my opinion. Except the difference between arguing with Libs about why Obama is not liberal and Cons about why Bush was not conservative is the libs don't get angry, they make excuses. The Bush votes I used to argue with about Bush would flat out tell me I was a terrorist, hahaa.

So Bush supporters skip all the formalities and go straight to the pissing contest.

[general hoke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVcyNANK ... re=related

[ledskof]

And then copped out with "tear it all down" and "well then whats your solution mr smarty pants?" <-- I'm paraphrasing.

[Int'l man of mystery]

And then copped out with "tear it all down" and "well then whats your solution mr smarty pants?" <-- I'm paraphrasing.

They don't like being challenged. In fact, from what I've seen, a lot of people don't.