U.S. Veterans Returning Home To Unemployment

[Phys]

Dont forget people like:

[Ian]

There were a couple Army recruiters outside the grocery store last Sunday when I had to go for milk and eggs. I was feeling a little frisky so I decided to shoot the shit with them for 5-10 minutes. Basically what kind of idiot would enlist when they could get paid twice as much to be a "private contractor" sort of thing. Also asked them about their oaths to defend the Constitution and whether or not they believed obeying unconstitutional orders could be defined as treason, even when the orders come from the top of the chain of command. Talked a bit about the defense of freedom and how overseas military operations could be called that. Had a spat about the 160+ current foreign bases and more being built each year that serve no national security interest and that, at the same time, every four years stateside bases come up for the BRAC review and entire communities are obliterated based on DC politics and which Congressman's base is gonna get closed. Poor guys. The young one looked to be in his early 20's and he was at a loss. The older guy, late 30's/early 40's was just shaking mad. Whatevers. Army of One, right?

[600ccdevil]

Well I can say from my own personal experience that my military time gained me a "Thank you" and that's about all when it came to a job. No employer that I know of acknowledges my military training. Basically everything you do in the military doesn't translate over into the civilian world. I was a medic for three years and I have combat experience treating people under fire and all. When I looked into the civilian medical field I found that the only thing that carries over is my one civilian certification that we got in our training. It was EMT-B which is the lowest form of EMT that you can get. We had the training of an EMT-P and even some above and beyond that. The only job I was able to get because of my military experience was a security job. Even at that, I've got hundreds of hours of training in hand-to-hand combat, urban warfare (MOUT), small arms, emergency medical, and other tactics and the best they could give me was a low grade security guard position. The only good thing that came from my military time was the GI Bill but that doesn't even come close to the PTSD I've got from Iraq. You can't just unsee all the horrible shit that happened there and move on with your life. For that I got jack shit. They wanted me to go to group therapy and gave me Zoloft. I can not stand those zombie pills. It's definitely hard trying to blend back into the American public. After you've seen the true reality of the world it's hard to relate to the blind, comfortable Americans. I've found very few civilians who are actually aware of the reality of the world (I think that is one reason I was so drawn to this forum). Most of my combat buddies know the reality but they are still blinded by patriotism so it is hard to connect with them. There's also this stigma on us that we are going to flip out and kill people. I had an ex-girlfriend who once "jokingly" asked if I was going to drown her in a bathtub. So for us war veterans it is very hard to adapt back into the civilian world. War really does change you.

Oh and FYI, We tried very hard not to kill civilians. When it did happen we felt like shit. It's not the soldiers on the ground who are killing the civilians en mass; it's the artillery, mortar, and air-attacks. Some of my buddies were very cynical about the Iraqi people, and I know a few people who had no problem killing civilians, but the majority of American soldiers aren't like that. I hate how the government tries to put the blame onto the boots on ground when it is their bombing that is taking the innocent lives. A few soldiers commit horrible acts and they go "See! See! It's not us! It's these testosterone filled soldiers! We tried to stop them!." Most of us didn't even want to be in Iraq and we knew it was pointless being there. We tried to treat the Iraqi people as nicely as we could but we still had to maintain an emotional disconnect since we were in a combat zone. Most of the Iraqi people just wanted to be left alone to live their lives. I have my doubts about whether or not the people actually killing us were Iraqis. They would tell us stories about people they've never seen before just moving into their community and being all secretive. These people would warn the local populace to keep their mouth shut or they would kill them and their family. Besides a few isolated cases, it was usually people who didn't even belong in the city who were attacking us. Some of the people would even tell us that these people didn't even seem Iraqi. They said their accents and dress habits were odd. But this is a whole other argument.

The point is that it is currently popular to be all "Support our troops!" but it's all mouth work. Most people don't want us working for them or being near their family. They don't trust us. There is a divide between the American people and their combat veterans.

[Phys]

Related: http://www.ancreport.com/forum/v ... 17#p133817


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Khut8xbXK8

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[Ian]

The point is that it is currently popular to be all "Support our troops!" but it's all mouth work. Most people don't want us working for them or being near their family. They don't trust us. There is a divide between the American people and their combat veterans.

A lot of US citizens are scared of combat vets. I'm not sure how common violent crimes are among Iraqistan veterans but I know the wars have been ongoing long enough that every military community stateside has had some kind of incident. And a lot of these small towns, like Clarksville, TN(Fort Campbell), they're attached to these troops. These guys are members of the community. They rent movies at the local Blockbuster, go to local churches, bars, whatever. So when there's an incident whether it's suicide, assault, rape, murder, whatever there's a community-wide feeling that it could be anyone that's been overseas. If Spc. Smith that used to shoot the shit with me over a couple happy hour beers can beat some high school kid within an inch of his life than what about the other vets? If Pfc. Johnson that used to sit behind me at church with his pregnant wife can murder her and then kill himself, what about everyone else coming back from overseas?

It's really damaging. It needs to end.

[Ry]

Watada is the man.

As for the others yes they are coming home to unemployment. Partly because of the trillion dollar a year war they participated in.

[600ccdevil]

Watada is the man.

As for the others yes they are coming home to unemployment. Partly because of the trillion dollar a year war they participated in.

Exactly. No sympathy from me. Get on the bread lines with everybody else.

So it's the soldiers fault for serving their country? We did what we did because we thought we were doing what was right for the American people. We had no idea about all the bullshit behind it. We didn't sign up to die because we wanted to help Israel and the neo-cons. My buddies died with the full knowledge in their head that they were dying to protect our country and it's people. This turned out to be false but that doesn't change the motivation behind our joining the military. Get on the bread lines with everybody else? You mean the people who did jack shit to help this country? Besides the few people on this board and other politically active people most Americans just sat on their ass and let the system die. At least us veterans are willing to die to better America. When this war started the 9/11 commissions report hadn't even come out yet. We may have fought for the wrong objective but at least we were willing to fight. Just about everyone in America was deceived by the 9/11 attacks. I sure as hell didn't hear about the neo-cons and Israel's wars until after I returned from Iraq.

My point is, don't be so quick to dismiss the few people who are actually willing to put their lives on the line to save America. It's easy to talk about what needs to be done but a few of us actually decided to stand up and fight for what needed to be done. It turned out to be lies and deception. Now we are learning this. These same soldiers you are so willing to dismiss will be the same who will actually stand up and fight if it comes down to it. Most of us have been lied to and deceived by the very country we fought to protect. We are now educating ourselves on this deceit. Ask yourself this; If it came down to taking up arms against our government would you be willing to die to save America? I know I, and all my buddies, would be. We've done it before, albeit for the wrong fight. Are you willing to lose your life, your family, the one you love....everything to save this country? Maybe you are. But until you've actually been there, you will never know. Before you lack sympathy for the few people willing to die for the country you care so much about, maybe you should think about whether you would be willing to make that sacrifice. I have allot of friends who did and it really angers me to think that the very citizens they died thinking they were protecting are saying they have no sympathy and they need to get in the breadline with everybody else. Allot of talk from a man who has never lost from all this deceit.


EDIT: Spelling and Grammar

[mynis]

I doubt I'd see much in Iraq that I didn't see when I was homeless in East Oakland. Yeah it sucks that people with good intentions join the military in vain, but what are you gonna do? Life is tough, get a helmet. I knew a guy who joined with his childhood friend in the buddy program, his friend got shot by a little kid and he had to shoot back, both the kid and his friend died. Try that for PTS.

[Ry]

600

but that doesn't even come close to the PTSD I've got from Iraq. You can't just unsee all the horrible shit that happened there and move on with your life. For that I got jack shit. They wanted me to go to group therapy and gave me Zoloft. I can not stand those zombie pills

Don't take the zombie pills.

My suggestion, if it is affordable sign up for a boxing or mma type class and do therapy by racking up endorphins by physically beating the crap out of pads and partners.

It pisses me off to no end all the hallow praise about the military. None of these flag wavers usually give a shit not really they just feel like they are supposed to but you won't see them helping these people. It makes me even more mad how the government sends people how to possible die and to kill because each one screws a normal person up. But when they get "home" they basically say go fuck yourself.

[600ccdevil]

Essentially, yes. They're not 'serving their country', they're serving government interests. Occupying foreign nations and nation building is not self defense.

We signed up to serve our country. That was my whole point. We took and oath to uphold the constitution and obey the orders of the President. We didn't sign up to serve government interests. We may have been used for such but that is not our reason for joining.

Sorry for your buddies, but you've all been clearly mislead.

That was my point. We had been mislead. That doesn't change the motivation behind our joining the military.

Yeah usually false sense of pride, patriotism and money. What other logical reason would one have to join a voluntary military during a time of war?

To defend our country. That's why we fight. I have no false sense of pride. I have real pride in America. America is not perfect I know this but it is still a great country. America can become even greater if more Americans would stand up and try to change it.

Yes, you're no different than me or anybody else. You got a paycheck, just like I do, thus making you an employee not a 'hero' that deserves special treatment for enlisting in a government sponsored death squad.

Except that I am different than you. I actually tried to fight for what I thought at the time was right for America. I got a measly paycheck. What do you do for America? I never said that I was a hero. I am not a hero. The simple matter of the fact is that me, and all my buddies, were actually willing to fight for America. Unlike people like you who just complain. Once again, what have you done? I imagine that what you've done involves little risk. Maybe protested, or wrote some politicians. All that stuff is very helpful and can help make a change but don't hate the people who thought they were fighting with you and were willing to go beyond the comfort zone. Like I said, we were completely deceived. In our minds we were fighting for America. As far as being a "death squad", we were under strict orders not to fire unless fired upon. That's a pretty shitty death squad. Everybody who stands up and fights for America, whether it be protests, writing politicians, or putting your life on the line is to be commended. We each fight in our different ways. All I'm saying is don't hate on us and say we are no different then the rest of the Americans even though we willing put our lives on the line. If that is the case than everyone on this board is no different then the lazy American who does nothing, which simply is not true.

Lame argument man. Basically you're saying "Hey, at least we are willing to kill and die for America!" So join a militia then and protect your state. Soldiers are just military pawns in the game of chess like Henry Kissinger said they would be. He even went as far as to call them dumb stupid animals (no lie, look it up).

How is willing to fight for your country a "lame argument"? Do you think our country gained it's independence from England by protesting and writing the English government? It may have been a factor but when it came down to to it, we had to pick up weapons. I'm well aware of what Henry Kissinger said. He also said, "If peace is equated simply with the absence of war, it can become abject pacifism that turns the world over to the most ruthless.". I'm also well aware that soldiers have been used as pawns. To think that all soldiers have been nothing but pawns is ignorant. As for militias, the problem with militias at this moment is that they are saturated with Republican ideology. Violence is not always the answer but on rare occasions violence is the answer. It should be avoided as much as possible and only used when absolutely necessary.

And what about the soldiers who will gladly round us up and put us into FEMA camps if they're told to? "We're just following orders", just like the SS said

What about them? Who are they and when did they round everyone up and put them into FEMA camps? If you are thinking about Hurricane Katrina then your looking at a environmental disaster. Your also looking at the National Guard. Completely different group. Those are basically civilians with military training. If your thinking this is actually going to happen to people then you've been listening to Glen Beck to much. Crazy conspiracy theories are not a viable reason to disrespect our soldiers. I know that I, and all my military buddies, would never open fire on the American people. Nor would we ever round them up and put them into "camps". You've been drinking a little to much of the conspiracy kool-aid if you believe this. One again, here is that fear of the soldiers I'm talking about.

Not really, I think this country is fucking retarded if I must be as honest as possible with you. I wouldn't give the sweat off my ass to save it, because I believe we're at the point of no return and that the only logical conclusion would be to let the system implode from the inside out. That's what's going to happen, no one will be dumb enough to start a phony revolution unless Glenn Beck told them to. I'd denounce my citizenship and move away before I ever defended this nation again. I say again because I used to be like you and actually liked the military growing up.

So why don't you denounce your citizenship and move away? Why live in a country that is "Fucking Retarded"? If you "wouldn't give the sweat of (your) ass to save it" then why are you still here? You seem like one of those people who said they would move to Canada if Bush got elected the first time...and then the second time. If the country is going to implode and your not willing to fight then WHY ARE YOU HERE?! Get your family and get out before you become a victim because if your not willing to fight that is exactly what you will become.

They don't have any sympathy from me, sorry. There was no draft, you all voluntarily joined the military knowing damn well the consequences. They did not die protecting me, perhaps you should ask for sympathy from the Israeli's since that's who reaped the benefits of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Just because you have emotional attachments to the military doesn't mean everyone is going to agree with you, or give a shit about them. All I'm saying is that you're no different than anybody else and do not deserve special treatment, that's all. I don't wish death on soldiers, I just don't think they should have any special rewards for their service. Get on the bread line with the rest of the unemployed and stop complaining. That's my opinion, thank you for 'defending it' in Iraq

Who doesn't have sympathy for you? I know the soldiers do. Why the hell would we fight for people we didn't care about?! " There was no draft, you all voluntarily joined the military knowing damn well the consequences." - Exactly my point! We chose to put our lives on the line for what we thought was right. They may not have died protecting you but they died thinking that they were. I don't have an emotional attachment to the military, I have an attachment to the soldiers. It has always been about the soldiers. Your logic that people who are willing to put their life on the line to defend their people are not different is logically flawed. What in your mind determines what makes somebody different? Are you willing to die to protect the citizens of America? If not then you are, by definition, different then the soldiers. You seem to be very upset with the American government but you are directing that anger at the wrong people. I'm not saying that we (soldiers) are better than you. But you cannot ignore the sacrifices that soldiers have made just because you don't like our government. I'm not saying that the war was right, not at all. The fact of the matter is that soldiers put their lives on the line to protect the American people. Whether or not the government actually uses them for this purpose has nothing to do with the motivation of the soldiers.

And before you say that we joined for the money you should probably know that starting pay when I joined was $998 a month. They provided barracks and food. The barracks were tiny and the food was an abomination. There were times when I worked for a month straight. Not overseas, but here in America. We had time to sleep five hours a night and were given MRE's twice a day. I still made the same amount of money each month whether I worked 40hrs or 80hrs. We didn't get huge bonuses to join the Army. The best thing I got out of it was the GI-Bill and that's not a give away. It's an investment with terms and limits. You actually have to pay into it every month for the first year your in the Army. It is funded completely off of pay-ins and not tax dollars.

Anyways, That's all my two cents. Rant over