Iconoclast

[Fat Pat]

He's one of the most interesting posters on this board. Not that he's "better" or "smarter" than anyone else on this board, he's simply interesting. I love to hear him clarify his down right unique beliefs. That's what this thread is for. If he'd be so kind to oblige, this thread is here for people to ask Iconoclast what political, spiritual (or lack there of), social, and philosophical ideology he subscribes to or favors. Sit back and pop some popcorn. It gets interesting!

[Fat Pat]

originally posted in the "Church and State" board but moved to this board to fit the content....

Dude, Iconoclast, you're a crazy guy! I'm definitely not clear on where you stand. I get bits and pieces here and there but it doesn't really add up all the time. So you don't like Christianity on a moral basis but also don't like Secular Humanism likewise.. so.. what morals ARE right to you? And that's not rhetorical or patronizing question. I just really want to know.

So let's recap.. you're Fascist, right? You're Atheist. You have pride in your race, right? You don't believe in multiculturalism. You hate Post-Modernism... should I just make a new thread and we'll talk?

...and now if Iconoclast would post his response...

[Dilapidated Nation]

looks like you have a fan Iconoclast

[Iconoclast]

Dude, Iconoclast, you're a crazy guy! I'm definitely not clear on where you stand. I get bits and pieces here and there but it doesn't really add up all the time.

I needn't describe my beliefs in detail, but I'll just describe by ideology/thought process.

*There is no objective morality, yet an objective reality
*Weak people must die/serve
*Strugge/strife makes life interesting and subjectively worth living
*Tabula rasa must be sent to the death camps, psychoanalysis too--the entire notion of a subconscious 'mind' must be destroyed
*Nature encompasses all and humanity means nothing to it
*Only individuals are individuals
*The greatest inner struggle is overcoming the desire to see reality as how one wants it to be
*A clean environment is necessary for continued human survival and the epitome of art and beauty

I think that is about it.

So you don't like Christianity on a moral basis but also don't like Secular Humanism likewise.. so.. what morals ARE right to you? And that's not rhetorical or patronizing question. I just really want to know.

Secular Humanism is the belief in no God(s), and humans can solve human matters. I'm sorry, but humans can't solve human problem, people need to solve their own problems as part of life's struggles. SH also sees religion as the greatest "evil" (a Christian idea, mind) and seeks to destroy all traces of it.

That, and it is Christianity minus the invisible men.

So let's recap.. you're Fascist, right?

I'm not too entirely sure what a fascist is...Does anyone actually know? It seems to be a generic term for being anti-egalitarian/anti-populism/anti-democrapy.

I have described myself as Anarcho-Fascist before (and Pyscho American here has done so as well) and I suppose it could be described as being a relatively small, isolated community with less an emphasis on "individualism" and a higher standard of both individual quality and civil rights with nonexistent political opportunities for those not viewed with an innate skill of leadership.

Think of libertarians that ensure a libertarian lifestyle by disallow non-libertarians from sitting on the throne if you have trouble visualizing such ideas, though that is not an exact analogy as libertarians are too individualistic.

You're Atheist.

Correct, but not a militant Atheist.

You have pride in your race, right?

I believe racial/tribal pride is acceptable and in fact, an ideal for all peoples, but I wouldn't say I am proud of my race as it now worships everything I stand against, in addition to how I have been treated by people during my childhood. I am more concerned about culling and cleansing to create something worthy of holding pride for. At the present point in my life I am a misanthrope.

You don't believe in multiculturalism.

Multiculturalism is either one of two things: Excluding those of European descent (or at least seen as being "White", this excluding the Jews of course) from benefits or combining races until only one exists and everybody has to be proud in the same thing. That's no fun.

You hate Post-Modernism...

*There is no objective morality, yet an objective reality

[Ry]

I disagree with a couple things

no objective morality ~ I think there is a morality that is semi objective given common goals there is a such thing as the better way thus the right way. IE irrigation works better than praying for rain irrigation is empirically right and prayer is wrong in that situation (with the stated goal being say needing water for crops).

You have to turn moral questions in to truth conditions and then there is a way to grab at an objectivity. Some goals are universal like health and living. If you don't have the goal to live then commit suicide everyone has agreed on some maxims.

(This the above would take a long philosophical defesne and I am not up to it right now but some other time. heck maybe I will add a philosophy section.)

weak people should die or serve ~ I think some weak people can be made strong. Some may also have strong offspring. For example autistic people have a high corrolation to mathimatical geniuses. People who have writing diabilities have a tendancy to be wonderful artist. ect.

Multiculturalism is either one of two things: Excluding those of European descent (or at least seen as being "White", this excluding the Jews of course) from benefits or combining races until only one exists and everybody has to be proud in the same thing. That's no fun.

Multi-culturalism is bull all it means is multiple races most of whom in America already have the same macro culture. They're all consumer capitalist. What the term should be changed to is multi-sub culturalism. I like what Ted K said about it. When people talk about this stuff when they are just talking about minoritties they don't respect or wish to preserve a culture what so ever. Surface culture is as far as it goes.

"29. Here is an illustration of the way in which the oversocialized leftist shows his real attachment to the conventional attitudes of our society while pretending to be in rebellion against it. Many leftists push for affirmative action, for moving black people into high-prestige jobs, for improved education in black schools and more money for such schools; the way of life of the black "underclass" they regard as a social disgrace. They want to integrate the black man into the system, make him a business executive, a lawyer, a scientist just like upper-middle-class white people. The leftists will reply that the last thing they want is to make the black man into a copy of the white man; instead, they want to preserve African American culture. But in what does this preservation of African American culture consist? It can hardly consist in anything more than eating black-style food, listening to black-style music, wearing black-style clothing and going to a black-style church or mosque. In other words, it can express itself only in superficial matters. In all ESSENTIAL respects more leftists of the oversocialized type want to make the black man conform to white, middle-class ideals"

The only exceptions I can think of in the US where there really is a different culture co-existing or mixed in with a surrounding culture is Native Hawaiian culture in Hawaii and some of the larger Native American Reservations like the Hoppi. Aside from that and a few Im sure some people could come up with I think the US only has one culture the culture of greed.

It is not fair that White Males or any school or business gets the eye put on them if they don't have enough such and suches. What we really have here is classism where the poor get the shaft and many minorities are poor not because they are inferirior but because of a complex number of things mainly centering on banking and land grabs. The tribe that controls the money supply always wins. The exception is women, women were oppressed more because of religious bullshit. Women however are propbably the fastest assimulated group in amerika, this is because they were never totally detached from the wealth, by marriage or whatever a good number of females have always been part of the money supplyers.

Secular Humanism is the belief in no God(s), and humans can solve human matters. I'm sorry, but humans can't solve human problem, people need to solve their own problems as part of life's struggles. SH also sees religion as the greatest "evil" (a Christian idea, mind) and seeks to destroy all traces of it.

shame shame this sounds like a Christian's definition of secular humanism.

[HORATIO]

People with disabilities are actually very strong characters and usually make up for their problems by developing strengths in other areas not affected by their disability.

As for psychological strength it is people who have power fixations who are obviously somewhat laking in strength if they have to construct beliefs that make them feel all powerful.

[Ry]

OK I thought of another example and it's a good one because it shows how race doesn't have to have anything to do with culture. The Amish are a seperate culture because of their strict ass goofy religion, they are white people mainly (totally?) yet look at how different their culture is compared to those of the same race and environment around them.

[Iconoclast]

no objective morality ~ I think there is a morality that is semi objective given common goals there is a such thing as the better way thus the right way. IE irrigation works better than praying for rain irrigation is empirically right and pryer is wrong in that situation. You have to turn moral questions in to truth conditions and there is a way to grab at an objectivity.

That is reality, not morality.

weak people should die or serve ~ I think some weak people can be made strong. Some may also have strong offspring. For example autistic people have a high coorolation to mathimatical geniuses. People who have writing diabilities have a tendancy to be wonderful artist. ect.

Think of positive eugenics over negative eugenics.

[Iconoclast]

shame shame this sounds like a Christian's definition of secular humanism.

i don't see how it is, Christians are the ones who donate to third world countries and universalize their religion so that everybody worships their disease.

[Iconoclast]

People with disabilities are actually very strong characters and usually make up for their problems by developing strengths in other areas not affected by their disability.

As for psychological strength it is people who have power fixations who are obviously somewhat laking in strength if they have to construct beliefs that make them feel all powerful.

Nevertheless a downie is never going to be of any value socially, same goes for many other mental conditions that can't be fixed or overcome.