Anti-neocon approved

[Ry]

vote for yourself then. Voting is always better than not voting. Not voting doesn't say I hate both choices l It just says I dont care.

[ledskof]

Voting also says you believe it makes a difference and that you support democracy.

Not everyone believes it makes a difference and not everyone supports democracy or wants to continue the govt the way it is.

[frankjcrow]

I have serious doubts that voting will change anything, but it is really all that I can do directly. It is my voice and political will even if nobody gives a shit. I agree with Ryan about not voting is just saying that you're OK with whatever the fuck they want to do. Even if the voting system is totally corrupt and fake, I have to believe that someone somewhere is looking.

I'll do it just in case it does work and because I'm not OK with them doing whatever the fuck they want. Nobody is gonna come to the aid of the USA... ever. Either we fix this shit or we go down.

And if they are fixing the vote illegally... I'm gonna make those crooks work for it! If everybody votes against their shit, they'll have to go to extraordinary measures to cover it up and defraud people. If everybody says "fuck it" and doesn't vote, then they don't have to hardly do anything.

-Frank

[ledskof]

Well voting clearly isn't fixing it. So any other ideas on how to keep us from going down?

Spreading the word of libertarianism clearly isn't fixing it. (considering this country founded on the same principles, I don't really see how it could ever fix it considering what this country became).
Dumping money onto the libertarian party isn't fixing it.
And supporting candidates with libertarian ideals isn't fixing it.
In spite of these things, the state continues to grow more oppressive.

Is it truly that much different now that we have the internet? Are we finally going to turn the tide and fill the govt with libertarians and strip back a few of our freedoms? Are we truly going to strip them all the way back to a confederacy? Do you guys see the tide about to break in the future or something?

Or is it actually past time to realize that voting isn't working and to proceed with a new plan. I'm sick of dumping cash on political parties and leaders that don't appear to be making any improvements.

What has to happen before people decide that voting isn't doing a damn thing? Maybe if we keep that in mind we'll know when it's time to stop believing in it. I mean, when *other* people will know when it's time. I stopped believing in that shit when I was a child.

If you think I'm recommending that people say "fuck it", you're not really getting what I'm talking about.

[Ry]

No Not voting clearly isn't doing anything. Voting is how Ron Paul became a congressmen, and why you know about him. The problem with voting has always been the MEDIA. As the web has broken that hold more honest people have a chance at getting into office. Voting on one day is not going to prevent you from doing whatever it is you think you can do to replace democracy.

Look thats the system we have right now. There is not going to be some systematic change in a next few months where we all go to anarchy among mature adults. First of all not everyone is mature. Secondly, please it's not gonna happen. Just vote for the better people. If they steal it they steal it but dont just hand it to them automatically by not voting. You will never get everyone to quit voting.

Vote for this woman

[ledskof]

I never said I wasn't voting. I just said it was pointless. But the point I'm trying to make is that relying on it isn't working. How could it possibly be more clear that it isn't working considering it has never worked? When have things gotten less oppressive because of voting, even when a decent president was elected? The ones who tried to actually steal our freedoms back from the system took a bullet. All of them.

My point had almost nothing to do with voter fraud.

If the problem is the media, maybe we should be aiming all these efforts towards taking over the media, or some part of the media, instead of aiming at the top of the most corrupt and biggest, hardest to change, and screwed up organization in the world, in history, aka the US govt. Isn't that aiming a little high? Especially considering that all we've seen thus far, in pretty much the entire history of this country, is failure? Maybe we need to actually try and succeed at something, hell, ANYTHING.

My point isn't really to get everyone to quit voting. My point is to get them to stop doing nothing BUT voting; to stop thinking voting is enough; to stop hedging all their bets on voting; to stop picking a leader and dumping all of their time and energy into it like it's going to fix the entire world. It never has, and probably never will. So much more needs to happen than just landing a lib in the white house.

Secondly, please it's not gonna happen.

Funny that I hear that consistently about Ron Paul. Even the people who are voting for him say it.

Dude I understand you aren't really into anarchy, but if you're going to criticize it, you might actually want to learn a little about it. The comments you make on it aren't that much more informed than the comments from people who know nothing but the standard myths about it. Requiring mature adults has pretty much nothing to do with why it should work. And if we're talking about whether or not it will work based on logic and evidence, show me where libertarianism has been working. All I see are $millions of dollars going into totally failed campaigns without any improvement anywhere in govt. And when they fail to deliver on their promises that our support and donations are supposed to enable, and then fall back on "we failed, but at least we're still educating people!", well hell, we're ok with that right? We're ok with the promises consistently failing? But wait, it's our fault right? Because we didn't give enough or we didn't support enough.

I'm sick of my damn money and time being wasted! I want RESULTS. Maybe it's time to start a new group to fix things and stop supporting the FAILURES.

And you do realize this govt was once based on libertarian ideals and yet, here we are? Maybe we need to start considering, or rather you and other people need to start considering, that libertarian democracy failed, and will probably fail again, and that we need to start working for something new. If everyone in history had said, "well, this won't ever happen, and if it did, it wouldn't be in our life time anyway," there never would have been this libertarian ideals founded country in the first place. The Great Experiment never would have happened. At least some of us have learned how terrible of an idea that it was in the first place. What's next in the "still a govt" but "is really, truly, we meant it this time, not going to violate freedom" philosophy mindset? Nothing is next actually. It's just more libertarianism. It's the same thing that already failed. It's more people preaching free market yet running for office in an anti-freemarket govt with the hopes of changing it to a free market govt by either being the president (aiming pretty damn high there), or being a senator or congressman and having their diminutive little vote heaped onto the hopes of everyone thinking voting is going to just change this system.

When in history have the ruled commanded the rulers with so little effort as walking into a freaking church, and casting a vote? It's just insane.

Yeah I'm voting for Ron Paul. There's too much peer pressure and threat of social ostracism not to. It doesn't mean I think it's going to do a damn thing, and I don't really think hardly anyone else does either.

[Ry]

fair enough Im just used to the people saying "don't vote man bla bla" you know.

[bunnytail0]

I truly support the efforts put forth here. The passion and commitment are surely genuine. That said, there are still the lessons of history to remember. The least of these is that no matter the goodness inherent in a movement, any movement, whenever people gain power they corrupt both the goodness of and the goals of the movement.

It's not so much that we have to define what the future social structure is going to be called. Indeed, whenever any such thing is given a name it is doomed to failure mainly by being narrowed further and further into the most nuanced meaning of the words to facilitate the gain of power by the people who wish to corrupt the thing so named.

That said, I have been pointing these things out since the 1970's and no one listened then and very few are listening now. #OWS and #Occupy(your favorite place name here) are mostly doomed to failure because of the propensity for people to seek labels for what, really, there is no need to name.

I vote and will vote. Write-in votes, exclusively. If there is no other person to vote for I write in cartoon characters. If enough people do this then the system, which has failed, will fall.

[Halfcrazedhoser]

While as a Canadian, I can't really do much with the American election, I do intend to run in my home riding in the next Canadian federal election. Right now, I'm of the opinion that if you don't know who to vote for, run.

[Ry]

I think we are making waves in the media. Ben Swann has been a great addition. Stossel has really truned things up too. And Alt media is larger than it ever was before. We just have to steer clear of the kook-media and things will continue to go. Kokesh has been a nice addition, Corbett came in 06. Rivero went to RBN. Then we got peopel like Larken Rose, Myself and other making the most out of youtube ever since the time constraint on ten minutes was lifted.

Poeple definitely should just think OK I voted I'm done. voting is like a hour out of your day for two days out of the year. The other 363 days need to be focused on expanding our media, spreading the philosophy of liberty, explaining history, researching, debunking the lies, etc etc.