Ahmadinejad in disagreement with religious clerics again

Current events, politics, and more.
User avatar
Ry
Super Anti-Neocon
Super Anti-Neocon
Posts: 34478
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:03 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Ahmadinejad in disagreement with religious clerics again

Post by Ry » Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:00 pm

you know well that those governments were set up by the British after they divided the territory. Puppet governments do not represent islam
You know that wouldn't be possible without religious belief because the divine right of kings or sultans is derived from the belief in Royalty to begin with which comes from RELIGION. A normal person would just say why does that guy get a castle...

What is so hard to understand about that. Religion is fucking stupid. I'm not the idiot you are. You only see the evil when it's your team getting hurt by it. You don't see the stupidity of your own faith which is just as stupid as Judaism and Christianity. Probably because it COMES FROM those faiths! It's not even an original pile of bullshit its a copy of early bullshit and yet you STILL believe it! All while some how denying the other two which are older and with out which your religion wouldn't even exist. THAT is what is amazing. (no offense)

Magic yellow cows and witch craft, temper tantrum gods and talking animals just sound like crack head talk to me. But to other it is the WORD and the truth and light the source of love and punishable by hell fire if you disagree.

Well I disagree because there's no hell either. Me and the other 5 billion non-believers on earth will enjoy it together. To me living in aplace with nothing but Christians or Muslims or Jews would be a real hell.
Get The Empire Unmasked here

User avatar
mrbheem
Fights PNAC daily
Fights PNAC daily
Posts: 533
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:44 am
Location: Antioch, CA

Re: Ahmadinejad in disagreement with religious clerics again

Post by mrbheem » Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:33 pm

you don't have to believe in religion to believe in a god though, a creator, that all this complexity and math came out of nowhere. Someone programmed this universe to work, someone had to design the human body and all other living things. otherwise everything in the universe would just be matter and chaotic energy. How does one explain consciousness?

User avatar
Ry
Super Anti-Neocon
Super Anti-Neocon
Posts: 34478
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:03 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Ahmadinejad in disagreement with religious clerics again

Post by Ry » Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:26 pm

you don't have to believe in religion to believe in a god though, a creator, that all this complexity and math came out of nowhere. Someone programmed this universe to work, someone had to design the human body and all other living things. otherwise everything in the universe would just be matter and chaotic energy. How does one explain consciousness?
ha ha lol. Actually if you believe in a god then that is a religion because it is the belief in the supernatural. It's not much of a religion as it basically explains nothing and instructs nothing. Thus it's not really harmful or helpful. You might as well say a cosmic fairy created everything. And then ignore where the cosmic fairy came from or how it magically made everything out of nothing and why it decided to do that. That is of course all on the other assumption that matter even needed to be created rather than it just being what being is.

Deism is a religion just not one of the more obvious bullshit stories that says ps this god also happened to pick me to rule over you. "Someone programmed the universe." Ok riiight and so under the same logic that stuff is too complicated to exist any other way, wouldn't an all powerful thing than can make all this stuff be even more complicated and improbably to have just appeared? And when did it make everything and why? And what was it doing before that?

Let me explain it another way that you haven't thought of. The assumption that all was void and that matter needed to be made is wrong. Something can't come from nothing doesn't mean a magical being in the nothing decided to make everything by magic aka impossibly. That basically still saying being came from nothing.

How about this, and I will explain it to you with a question. Where did nothingness come from?

Prior nothingness? No, it doesn't "come from" nothing, it IS nothing, and it remains nothing, it doesn't have to be made out of being or be preserved by prior nothingness.

The same applies to existence. There never was a a time where there was a void. In fact there isn't even time. Being is what is. It has always been. The word been is misleading because it's really just being now the same way that nothingness is a constant at all times. Time is an illusion. Time is a human's arbitrary measurement for changes with in the being but not of it. You pick a change in movement and count until some ending point. That doesn't measure existence. In fact that is as silly as guessing the age of nothingness. Emptiness by logic must always have been, and will be the same; nothing. Being is also eternal. When you think of time for existence don't imagine a linear tape of film that spands in opposite direction from some point called now that is always moving forward. Think of it as a dot that doesn't move at all. All this junk no matter how it moves about, no matter what changes take place, it ALWAYS exist.

The proper logical conclusion about matter or more accurately being, is that somethingness was not created out of nothing or by a god, but it is eternal and was never not thus it would be "made." The problem is in the world of man we are always making things, we forget that everything we make is out of other things the sum total is the same, we don't really create new matter we rearrange it. It's never created or destroyed. aka being is as eternal as nothing. (otherwise there would be nothing)

So there is your origin conundrum solved, no magical entities needed. Saying "someone" you didn't even say something but "someone had to design the human body" shows how anthropomorphizing your idea of god is and how limited you imagination and thought is. Some THING certainly did determine the human body. The earth did with specific environments over a long long process. There are a lot of problems with the body and ways to make it better, and not all of them work properly. All the plants an animals are this way and that's why there are so many of them. It's not some impossible miracle for life to occur as it has happen on this young planet already over billion times in different varieties. And there is organic matter on Mars as well, probably Europa too. It's not as rare as people once were taught it was. Before we didn't have Evidence for life in other areas, we'd also never been to any other areas. There are oceans and all the life requirements on several moons for Jupiter. Life doesn't even need to be carbon based like our it can be sulfur based (as it is in the deep sea and ground) or silicon.

It's not random chaos. Chemistry kills the randomness. It has rules that breaks down to size and the 4 forces. Conscientiousness is when a matter has input from the limitless outside thus breaking determinism. Every sentient being is still a part of existence, its being looking at itself through little windows. We could very well be totally mechanical but you'd never know the difference. Consciousness is an interesting question with lots of difference answers. For sure though natural philosophy and science are the paths to knowledge not simply declaring an answer that doesn't make any sense and appeals to magic and child like solutions that amount to "god did it."

We have very good understanding of why lightening occurs, what causes earth quakes and how plants grow, how babies are formed, what diseases are (not all of the diseases but we do know that they ARE diseases and not demon possessions) and other things trumped up to "god did it." and we found them by rejecting the god did it idea in favor of learning how nature works from the perspective that it is not a conscious thing, but and act obeying knowable unchanging physical laws.
Get The Empire Unmasked here

User avatar
Herstory
Speaking out
Speaking out
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:41 pm

Re: Ahmadinejad in disagreement with religious clerics again

Post by Herstory » Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:47 pm

That was awesome Ry.

I've had a strange Idea before like the earth was the solar system's brain, like if our brain looked at the rest of the body it might see it was dead stuff, like unconscious cells, just there to manipulate. And yet all of that majority unconscious stuff is actually part of the conscious thing, as it is the body ... the environment housing the thinking portion. And it's all necessary for there to be a conscious thing. It always feeds on other bodies and information also from unconscious things, like pure lights and sounds etc. the brain and body are feeding themselves together form another bodies and other consciousnesses's bodies. I wonder if on some small level a cell is conscious and thinks of the rest of the cell as unconscious parts to itself. And we just keep scaling up.
End the God Damn Wars!

Image

GamerS
Smashing neocons
Smashing neocons
Posts: 1526
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:19 am

Re: Ahmadinejad in disagreement with religious clerics again

Post by GamerS » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:12 pm

Damn, how did this turn into a discussion about whether religion is true or not. At least I admit I don't know for sure..... I think religion has been an positive and negative influence on people throughout history. Unfortunately, most people would rather just beleive their religion than think of alternatives. I, personally, have a hard time beleiving anything on faith, but I respect those that do, unless they are hurting other people. It is true that Persia had it's heyday before Islam, but I can tell you that Iranian Islam is mixed with Zoroastrianism from personal experience and Iran has many, many atheists. Most Persians I know are not very religious at all. Ron Pizzle had a point but it is not fair to make such a blanket statement, Even in Iran under the religious government, they do have advances in science, just look at the nuclear program, heck I read somewhere that at one point they were ahead of the USA in stem cell research and that was because of religious convictions HERE in the USA! (the western country). They have done quite well for themselves having had to live under the Islamic government, but most of the advances in science have been from sanctions, not Mullahs. There are different kinds of Muslims. There are some who want to live in the stone ages, then there are others who want to learn and advance just like anybody else and Islam (for these people maybe) does not restrict them. I'm not saying they have no restrictions, there are always restrictions in any society for religious reasons or not. But it is possible to have learning and science and modern society in Islamic countries, Iran is a good example because it does pretty well under the sanctions, but look at UAE and other advanced countries. THere are good examples. These people are as smart and sometimes smarter than westerners (I think dumb people here just breed too much is the problem, so we have more than our fair share, bringing the average down.). My original argument to Ron was really just speculation of how the Muslim world may have progressed if they had not been messed with so much by the British and now the American empire and simply traded with. People cling to religion when under duress and in conflict and I think this has a lot to do with why there are so many fundamentalists there today. Just look around at all the Christinan fundamentalists croping up here lately. You won't see much out of those people either.

User avatar
mrbheem
Fights PNAC daily
Fights PNAC daily
Posts: 533
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:44 am
Location: Antioch, CA

Re: Ahmadinejad in disagreement with religious clerics again

Post by mrbheem » Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:51 am

sorry but ill never view myself as a robot, my body yes, but not my consciousness like an advanced AI

User avatar
RonPizzle
End the occupationS. Yes, all of them.
End the occupationS. Yes, all of them.
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:09 am
Contact:

Re: Ahmadinejad in disagreement with religious clerics again

Post by RonPizzle » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:54 pm

Ry, there's no use.

illogical -appeal to faith: (e.g., if you have no faith, you cannot learn) if the arguer relies on faith as the bases of his argument, then you can gain little from further discussion. Faith, by definition, relies on a belief that does not rest on logic or evidence. Faith depends on irrational thought and produces intransigence.

I'm betting 100-1 all these islamic "truth and knowledge seekers" here would vanish in thin air if the topic weren't the middle east. The funniest reply though has to come from gamers who thinks I believe in american exceptionalism because I value the ideas which this country was built on. Almost as bad as accusing someone of racism I suppose. I want nothing to do with you islamic retards. Worst major religion by far and I'm not afraid to say it. Bring it on.


"Freedom is something that dies unless it's used." -HST

Xed
Smashing neocons
Smashing neocons
Posts: 1782
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:19 am
Location: UK

Re: Ahmadinejad in disagreement with religious clerics again

Post by Xed » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:58 am

dude the topics on this board is NOT just about the middle east, and your extreme hatred for such a particular in religion which 1.5 billion people take part in (islamic retards as you like to say) makes me quesiton your advocacy for peace.

The statements you make are those which would fuel the extremism that you apparently dislike so much which makes me question if your one of the same.

I mean what muslim out of 1.5 billion is going to take you seriously when you think they are all retards?
When false religion is established, when all avenues of protest are closed, when potential revolutionaries are bribed, coopted or killed, then Hussein's model teaches man to be a martyr, and by his death witness to the truth and shake the evil empire:

"It is an invitation to all ages and generations that if you cannot kill, die".

- Ali Shariati

Phys
Anti-Zionist princess
Posts: 10628
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:55 pm
Location: TX

Re: Ahmadinejad in disagreement with religious clerics again

Post by Phys » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:58 am

I agree Xed. It is hard to talk of peace while starting the conversation as, “hey retard”.

I told my friend once that if Buddhist are to live in a Christian country then we have to be like sugar and water not oil and water if they are to mix. Odd thing coming from me I know but it is the right thing to do. I just have been able to sincerely put it to practice now.

User avatar
RonPizzle
End the occupationS. Yes, all of them.
End the occupationS. Yes, all of them.
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:09 am
Contact:

Re: Ahmadinejad in disagreement with religious clerics again

Post by RonPizzle » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:54 pm

Xed wrote:dude the topics on this board is NOT just about the middle east, and your extreme hatred for such a particular in religion which 1.5 billion people take part in (islamic retards as you like to say) makes me quesiton your advocacy for peace.

The statements you make are those which would fuel the extremism that you apparently dislike so much which makes me question if your one of the same.

I mean what muslim out of 1.5 billion is going to take you seriously when you think they are all retards?
You don't even have peace with your women let alone other nations. I'm hostile where hostility is needed. Your culture is backwards, demeaning and immoral, I don't want peace with these people.

"Freedom is something that dies unless it's used." -HST

Post Reply